Is Freddie the best...?

Question

I saw an interesting statistic a few days ago, in this statistic it said that Andrew Flintoff had taken the 2nd highest % of top order wickets (batsmen 1-6) in test cricket history. More than Lillie, Murali, Warne etc. http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/342444.html

After seeing this statistic do you think that Flintoff is one of the most underrated bowlers of all time?

Answer 1

I feel sorry for flintoff, because the britsh press give him quite a bit of stick, despite him easily being there best player. Anyway, flintoff in my opinion is the best bowler in the world when properly fit, he can consistently bowl more than 90 miles per hour, and bowls something that sometimes shaoib akthar bowls, which is called a heavy ball, however he has one of the best control with the ball than any other bowler, and relentlessly is always applying pressure. the reason why he doesnt get many wickets is because, all playing nations just fend him off, and target other bowlers. The only batsmen that has got the better of flintoff has been sachin, that just shows the greatness of flintoff

Answer 2

Great question. You always hear about how overrated Freddie is so it was a nice surprise to see quite the opposite for once.

I’m not even going to go into his batting right now. We all know it’s gone into a fairly long decline with no century in any form of cricket since August 2005, however that is not the question in hand.

This statistic showing how Flintoff has taken the second highest percentage of top order wickets in Test cricket history just goes to show how world class he actually is. The significance of getting rid of early wickets immediately puts the opposition under a lot of pressure by forcing the lower order batsmen (or even bowlers) to make up for the lost runs. Any bowler able to do this is of great importance. They are able to beat the highly skilled top order, not just pick up the cheap wickets of the tail enders to finish off the innings.

So is Freddie underrated? In a way I would have to say yes, he is. He is always branded as being England’s genuine all-rounder however these statistics clearly prove how Flintoff is a bowler to be feared. As long as he regains full fitness and is able to bowl as he did during his peak, I would have him in my team even if he batted like Chris Martin!

Answer 3

Your statistics come from the same table which rates Nicky Boje as the best bowler in history, and (even more worryingly) rate Ashley Giles as the all-time world number 4...

The cricinfo statisticians covered this table in an article a month or so ago, generally dismissed it as unrepresentative, and came up with some kind of extra parameter which made the table look a little more believeable...just have to try and find it again now.

To actually answer the question, yes Flintoff the fit bowler has often been underrated...just as much as Flintoff the in-form batsman has often been overrated.

EDIT...Keep your hair on...I read it properly the first time I saw it. I found the original article:

http://blogs.cricinfo.com/itfigures/arch...

Here is the bit where they did the extra parameter:

1.Marshall M.D      RF  Win   20.95  30.06   9.11

  2.Davidson A.K      LFM Aus   20.53  29.51   8.97

  3.Ambrose C.E.L     RF  Win   20.99  29.85   8.86

  4.McGrath G.D       RFM Aus   21.64  30.43   8.79

  5.O'Reilly W.J      RLB Aus   22.60  31.12   8.53

  6.Barnes S.F        RFM Eng   16.43  24.58   8.15

  7.Laker J.C         ROB Eng   21.25  29.30   8.05

  8.Croft C.E.H       RF  Win   23.30  31.22   7.91

  9.Miller K.R        RF  Aus   22.98  30.65   7.68

10.Adcock N.A.T      RF  Saf   21.11  28.17   7.07

which doesn't really require any more comment from me.

Answer 4

Hi KooKee,

I have said it before and I will say it again, Freddie is indeed one the games most underrated players. My theory is that if he had been an Aussie, he would indeed be mentioned in same light as the players you outlined. The problem is that he plays for you lot!! Unfortunately for him, that for some reason has made him a lesser light in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Freddie and Kevin are the main reasons for your historic Ashes win a few years ago (but lets not dwell on the past huh?!!). The instrumental roll  Freddie played in securing the win for England, I think was largely overlooked.

Having said all that, you know as well as I do that you can get some of the more obscure statistics and make any player look good. I can't remember exact figures now, but there was a time where Stuart MacGill had some better numbers of some description than Warney. There were therefore some media personnel that believed MacGill to be ahead of Warne in selection - wow go figure!

Answer 5

i think he is but tied 4 very close

Answer 6

Freddie Flintoff has never been underrated...infact he has always been termed as oe of the Best Allrounders of all times.

His injury layoffs are keeping him away from international cricket but he has always been a captain's marvel as he can win the game single-handedly for his team on his day.

Ian Botham has always been supporting Flintoff and he sees hismself in Flintoff.

I saw the link  and the no.1 is Nicky Boje!!! that's interesting!

Answer 7

Yes I agree.

Answer 8

i don't think there has ever been any doubting Freddie's bowling ability until recent injuries, and he has always been in the england team to bowl as much as he has to bat

IMO he is a better bowler then batsman and when fit should only be looking at breaking into the england team because of that

if he can hit his very best form with the ball again he is very dangerous but not 1 of the best in world cricket - look at Lee, Shoaib, Tait, Bond, Malinga/Vaas - is Freddie on par with them?

Answer 9

Freddie is a legend, & I hope he gets over his latest injury in record time, as England really need him. Going on the stats you quoted, he surely is right up there with the best KooKee.And yes, he is very underrated!

Answer 10

Most English bowlers have been great in the past years but the problem has been their inconsitency & injuries. Simon Jones, Hoggard & Harmison seemed to be the best trio till the 2005 Ashes but then it all got bundled. About Freddie, He's a great all-rounder, but again, has lost a lot of time in surgeries. Though he'll always be charismatic as he's been but skill wise, just didn't do full justice to his ability.

Answer 11

This stat is of a lot of significance.

It tells me that top order batsmen in the world are more troubled by Flintoff than bowlers like Murali,Steyn,Shaoib etc.

This means a lot.

For people,check out these two scenarios-

1-A bowler is struggling to get top order players out.He gets 2 good batsmen of the opposition team out and gives away 85 runs to get these 2 wickets.

Nothing special in it?

The opposition is at 325 for 5.

The bowler is brought in,gets a wicket and we are into the tail.Then gets 3 out of the four tail enders.

He gets his last 4 wickets in just 35 runs.(3 out of 4 poor batsmen)

The opposition scores 378.

Now his figures - 6 wickets for 120 runs.

Average - 20

2-Andrew Flintoff gets 4 top batsmen of the opposition team out for 100 runs.

Very good bowling.

The oppsotion because of that is at 172 for 6.

We are into tail.

Flintoff comes in and gets 2 more tail enders out by giving just 20 runs.

The final score of the opposition - 215

Now his figures-6 wickets for 120 runs

Average -20

So similar stats?

Which bowler did more damage?

You decide.

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When it comes to batting we always want to know how many runs that particular batsman has scored against good teams.

How many hundreds he scored against Australia?

What is his record against great bowlers of his time?

It's very important to know about these things before we start ranking batsmen.

And while ranking bowlers i want to know what is his record against top batsmen.How much is he troubling the top batsmen in the world.

Is he getting too many wickets against weaker batting line-ups?

Boje's appearance in that list is a fluke.Unlike Flintoff he don't have a good average and a good strike rate to back it up.

Plus we all know how much and when the South Africans used that poor guy.

They are a seam bowling country.Everytime they want to get a wicket they throw the ball to their seamers.All tail enders were eaten by Ntini,Pollock and Nel.

SUPER EDIT-

Flintoff under-rated?????????????????

Give me a break folks,he is NOT under-rated at all.

Either people are wrong or i don't know the meaning of the word 'under-rated'.

Answer 12

shane watson is twice as good as this guy..

Answer 13

When someone I know said to put Freddie in instead of one of the bowlers so an extra batsman could be played I laughed it off as a bad idea, but, after seeing that stat, I'm not so sure.