Is Pitcher inability to go more than 6 effective innings these days a result of Poor individual Conditioning..

Question

Or Poor Organizational Philosphies?

Because its like a catch 22.Organizations dont let pitchers go long because of perceived lack of stamina.. and Pitchers cant get stamina because organizations dont let them go long.

Answer 1

Follow the money...teams don't want big buck pitchers blowing out their arms - unless, of course, Dusty Baker is managing.

Players today are in much better physical condition than they used to be and pitchers could probably go deeper but you have all these other pitchers with specialty roles so you yank the starter after 6 or 7 and let the other guys do their jobs (unless they play for the Mets, sadly, where their job seems to be letting the other team win).

Answer 2

I honestly think that baseball players are in better overall "condition" now than ever before....Even into the 90's it was clear that the best athletes were still choosing Football and Basketball over Baseball...The days of Rick Reuschel and David Wells are gone.

It's part philosophy and part economics...

Remember that is wasn't long ago that Davey Johnson was laughed at for his three-ring binders full of stats and other data...and Tony LaRussa was called "The Nerd" for managing the A's with the help of a computer.

Today, stats rule the day....Hitters use their OPS when  negotiating their contracts and the Almighty Pitch Count rules over pitching staffs at every level.  I think it was Mel Stottlemyre that expressed frustration when his younger pitchers started asking him "what's my pitch count?" between innings...

Unfortunately, the economics of the game have made converts of even the oldest "old school" guys (except for Mike Marshall.....but no club will give him a job)...

These guys are now multimillion dollar investments one injury away from being that "lousy move" that puts a manager or a GM out of a Job.....Kevin Brown.....Carl Pavano.....you get the picture....

Look at it this way....Its June in Kansas City....Mike Mussina is pitching and you're up by 4 after 6 innings.....five days from now  Moose is going to face Josh Beckett in Fenway...do you let your 40-something pitcher throw 30-40 more pitches to get the complete game....or do you "save" him and hopefully he has that much more "stuff" against the Sox...?

Like it or not, the money in baseball no longer allows for the "live for today" attidude of the past....no one is going to remember that complete game shutout in KC in June if you got a dead-arm in September...

Answer 3

Both....the pitcher could be getting old and could have trouble staying in good shape....OR in most cases the team is not willing to risk injury and therefore not willing to take the risks with letting starters pitch. Pitch limit is the same story as inning limits. Now bullpens are becoming more and more important.

Answer 4

i think its conditioning, and studying team rosters to see who hot or what the batters are chasing

like the way that schilling studies individual stats

every knowledgeable aspect i would study, thats why they get paid the $$$$$$$$$

clubs protect sometimes

then theres sobriety issues

steriods, etc.

Answer 5

no, it's the nature of the game that has changed. Strong middle relievers and closers make today's game different than back when starters went 8 or 9 innings. I mean, kim, wouldn't you rather see mariano come in to pitch the ninth over the starter? Yes you would, c'mon, if you were in giardi's place you'd do the same thing.

Answer 6

Absolutely not it's a management philosphy.  I think they should let more pitchers pitch complete games.

Answer 7

Shorter outing are the result of several factors:

1.  Lower mounds

2.  Tighter strike zone

3.  More revenue, which allows teams to afford specialty pitchers.

4.  Better scouting reports and scouting tools.

5.  A mandatory batters eye in all parks.

Answer 8

I'm not sure what is up with that, but I miss the old days when a pitcher would complete a game. I think todays pitchers are babied too much. Relievers and closers should be used only when needed, let the starter win it or lose it.

Answer 9

No. the average pitcher wont make 6 innings because he is getting knocked around. Also there is the pitch count. Since we are early in the season coaches use pitch counts. so if a guy throwns 125 pitches, no matter when he gets to that number he is out. CG still happen as frequent as before.

Answer 10

I think it's partly because of advances in sports medicine knowledge. I would imagine pitchers fifty years ago didn't have careers as long as they do nowadays. They could be reckless with their arms for a few years, but they'd inevitably break down quicker. You do have some aberrations from the norm - guys like Satchel Paige, who supposedly were good pitchers until their 50s - but I bet the average pitching career in the modern game is much longer. And no individual pitcher wants to risk their own health and future by putting too much strain on their arm.

Also, it's definitely a strategy thing. They didn't have lefty specialists, setup men, closers, and such since relatively recently. If it's a close game, you'll want the best pitcher possible for the situation on the mound, even if he's a reliever that'll only pitch to one or two guys. Also, if you're playing in the NL, you'll most likely run into a situation in which you want to pinch hit for your pitcher in the later innings. These are all reasons why starters don't go as long in the modern era. I, for one, certainly admire guys like Halladay and Sabathia that can still pitch complete games. It's a rare talent nowadays.

Answer 11

h**l no, It's a manager trying to justify his job.  Nolan Ryan used to throw 200+ pitches in a game.  These days managers get nervous when their starter is near 100 pitches.  I've seen managers take a pitcher out  who is throwing a gem cuz he is worried amount the amount of pitches the guy has thrown.  I'm tired of seeing a pitcher give you a quality start only to be taken down for some reliever who eventually gives the game away.  You see it way too much these days.  Leave the starter in there.  

Also, MOST of the time the starter doesn't want to come out.  He feels he can keep going!  So, no it's not poor conditioning.

Answer 12

I think its poor organizational philosophies.  Management pay middle relievers ungodly amounts of money to pitch the 7th inning only or the 8th inning only instead of letting the starter pitch the entire game or at least from starter to closer.  Likewise closers only pitch one inning for the same reason.  I highly doubt Cy Young and Walter Johnson where better physical specimens than Johan Santana and Jake Peavy if not because of the time they lived in with lesser medical advancements and personal conveniences.  I bet every #1 pitcher today could go 8 or 9 inning each start.

EDIT*

Don't mock the pitchers Kim.  They don't ask to be removed from the game.  Management makes that decision.

Answer 13

No - the game is harder then ever.