Is Public School Teaching The Highest Paid Profession?

Question

Trying to figure out how people get the idea that teachers are not well paid.

Public school teachers, if you review their contracts, are required to work about 5 hours per day, and about 160 days per year. Their average wage is about $65,000. Their benefits are almost always 90% paid for by the school system, and their retirement compensation is the best in the world for ANY profession.

Using my figures above, which I've seen in many teachers contracts (contact your board of education, all contracts are public documents) teachers typically make about $81.25 per hour. Not bad for a part time job.

Add to this that they get mandatory overtime if they teach additional classes above the contract mandated maximums, and that many of them will coach a sport and grab another $5k to $10k per year in their spare time.

Additionally, many teachers are Realtors, Mortgage Professionals, or Insurance Agents as well, and they use their connections in the city to create business.

Answer 1

Your response to SMichele is all wrong.

Yes, 187 days is a lot less than the "260 everybody else works," but teachers are not paid for 260 days per year.  Their contracts are what their contracts are - no more, no less.  If teachers were to get paid for 260 days, then they would simply be paid more.  Teachers only get paid for what they work, so your logic on that is totally off.

Her case is also not unique.  All of the teachers in the state I live in fall under the same basic situations she described.  And the state I live in employees more than 50,000 teachers, so again, her situation is not unique.

And this health insurance thing you speak of does not exist in my state.  You say that career teachers would not know that most folks with a family pay up to $300 a month for health insurance.  I actually pay more that $600 a month for just myself and my children.  My spouse pays another $200.  School districts to not pay for health insurance for spouses and kids.  No jobs do that.  They may pay for the employee, but not their families.

And she also asked for your references.  Did you provide her with those?  You say you are writing a book.  You must obviously have some very reliable resources.  You should be able to present them.

Yes, you must be trying to elicit responses from teachers . . . perhaps to help you with writing your book.  I'm curious to know what the title of your book.

Answer 2

So are you becoming a teacher?

Answer 3

Wow...have you taken statistics at all???  Your "sample" isn't large enough. Another thing to consider is the cost of livign in that area.... places which cost a lot to live in often pay ALL professions more money.   My first year teaching I made $24,000 a year... plus I had to pay part of my insurance.  I worked from 8am-4pm.

Answer 4

Umm, youre kidding, right?  Not sure WHERE you got your figures, but boy, are they wrong!!  5 hours a day???  How about 10, on average.  And summers?  Spent taking classes to learn the governments latest new ideas on how to make us better teachers.  And 65K a year?  I WISH!  How about 32K a year.  Not to mention I work EVERY Saturday during the school year.  So, in actuality, I work 50 hours a week (M-F) PLUS about 4 hours each weekend.  That's 54 hours a week mid August through mid-June.  (Really, there is no 3 month vacation anymore).  So, that averages out to...46 weeks a year, at $695.00 a week, which averages out to 12.90 an hour.  (This is NOT including the time that we spend taking classes in the summer, which are required).  That also doesn't count the THOUSANDS of dollars teachers use of their own money to purchase school supplies and classroom supplies, or the money we often have to pay out of pocket to take these extra required courses over the summer.  I would like you to spend a week in a classroom.  Go be a substitute teacher for a while.  You would change your tune.

Answer 5

Definitely not.

You do have subtract all the money teachers have to pay to teach their kids.

Like I buy pencils, a lot, as schools don't have money to provide it and without them my kids can't do their work.

I buy books for them to read which are stolen on a daily basis.

Just a few of the many many many expenses I have.

Also contract hours are not our real hours.   Believe teachers don't stop working when the day is done.  Our second job starts then.

Based on your reply comments and the tone of your "question," I am guessing this is more to incite people, not to debate whether teachers are overpaid   My guess is you wouldn't survive  very long in a classroom.  Before you ask, in case you didn't read carefully, YES I am a teacher.   Also by the way I had better benefits and a MUCH easier job when I worked in advertising, before getting my master's degree in education.

Answer 6

haha -

You claim expertise because you are "writing a book".

We live it. You are all wrong.

anyone who gets into teaching because it is a nice "part time job" (your words) immediately quit because they underestimate the amount of time needed.

HALF of new teachers leave the profession - when leavers were asked why - lack of planning time and too heavy a workload were cited by over half of responders (National Center for Ed statistics)

NO teacher I know can do their job in contracted time. Thats the time we put in on campus - your post is a problem.

Answer 7

I agree that my husband and I are able to pay the bills, and we don't have to pay for insurance.  That's a blessing.  However, the stats you have don't match up at all in NC where we teach.  

The students attend school for 180 days, and the teachers obviously work more than that (I think we work about 2 more weeks, give or take).  

Your 5 hours stat is completely unfounded.  You're probably taking out planning, lunch, and before & after school duties.  I'm required to work from 7:45 to 3:15, which is 7 and a half hours.  None of that time is free, including lunch (I'm watching students then), so my required time is that of a typical 40 hour work week.  I'm sure you know that most teachers exceed their required time a lot, and we don't get paid extra for that.  I don't get paid extra for attending PTO meetings, committee meetings, and other required functions outside of the normal school day.  I sponsor and afterschool club and get no compensation of any kind.  I'm also the head of my department and receive no compensation for that either.

Coaches, at least in my area, don't get paid anywhere close the figures you've got.  Our average salary isn't $65,000 either.

Like I said, I'm able to pay the bills and am blessed to have a job that will always be needed, no matter how trying times may be.  I'm hardly, however, in the highest paid profession.

Answer 8

Yep.  You should definitely become a teacher.  Come and show the rest of us how it's done, because we're obviously doing it wrong if you see it as a part time job.  I predict your tune would change before long!

I don't dispute that I am well-paid, have extremely good benefits and job security and pretty awesome vacation time.  Teaching is a great career for many reasons and those I just listed aren't even in the top ten.  People who get into it for those reasons don't last more than a couple of years because what isn't outlined in my collective agreement is the extra work that has to be put in in order to do the job well.  

Teaching simply isn't (nor should it be) the sort of career that you leave "at the office" when you go home or on holiday.  I wake up in the middle of the night to worry and think about lessons, report cards, marking, whether my students got to eat dinner that evening, if they are safe in their homes, whether they're still in the shelter, and on and on.  I spend my own money on teaching supplies and on stuff like a new pair of shoes for that kid whose toes are literally sticking out the end of their running shoes, or socks for those who come to school in winter without any.  I spend my vacation time (and my own money) upgrading my skills and taking courses to ensure that I can be the best teacher I can possibly be.

Someone who approaches the career in the way you seem to be doesn't belong there.  You don't get into teaching for the money, the hours or the vacation.  You do it to make a difference in the lives of your students.

Answer 9

Teaching is not a part time job. You are not averaging in lesson plan time, before-school preparation, and after-school clean up and preparation for the next day. You are also not considering the amount of meetings, etc, teachers must attend.Teachers do not have loads of free time, as you seem to suggest, in which to have a second job.

The overcrowded state of public schools and lack of supplies and text-books also means that many teachers buy class supplies out of their own money.

I also doubt you are considering that teaching in a public school requires post-baccalaureate  study, in many cases a master's degree. For that level of education teaching is an underpaid profession.

EDIT: I don't know who these "most teachers" you keep talking about are. Please enlighten me. What school district are you talking about? How long have these teachers worked at this school district? What is the rate of pay for new teachers? What is the probationary period? You have also not addressed the education level required for teaching.

Yes, lesson plans do need to change. You'd be surprised to know that ideas about how to best teach basic subjects like fractions and reading fluctuate constantly. Teachers are also required to take college courses to renew their credentials. I think that you are convincing yourself you have an idea about what is required of a successful teacher while it is obvious you have none.

Yes, I am personally offended. You have made it sounds like teaching takes as much effort and education as flipping burgers.

EDIT: Are you basing your figures all one one county? That will not make a balanced book.

I'm also interested to hear what you think teachers SHOULD make.

I'm really confused about the way you've been responding.  Most of your responses have been from teachers. Are you saying you know more about what they make then they do?

And what about the education requirements. You still haven't said anything about that.

Answer 10

Your 'facts' do not make sense and are not taken from 'many teachers contracts ' if they are:

...about 5 hours a day

...about 160 days a year

...average wage is about

...benefits are almost always...

I think you just felt like annoying any teachers who read your 'question' tonight.

Answer 11

Seriously, I don't know where you're getting your information from, but most teachers do NOT make that much money. Teaching in NOT part-time work!

Consider this:

Teachers do not work 5 hours a day. Most work from (around) 7:30 until 4:00, not including any tutoring before or after school. Teachers are not paid overtime for that.

Teachers have to pay for supplies (90% of the time) out of their own pockets. That means spending about $100-$300 every year BEFORE school for things like bulletin board supplies, borders, chalk, dry erase markers, paper--just to name a few!

Teachers spend many evenings and weekends creating lesson plans, grading papers, creating games, etc

Before I vent anymore, please, please, please understand that we teachers do this because we love to teach. We are NOT "in it for the money", we're in it for the kids!

Answer 12

Uh, no.  Public school teaching is not the highest-paid profession.  Doctors, lawyers, and accountants often make a lot more money.

Harleigh Kyson Jr.

Answer 13

haha!  This is a joke, right?  I don't know where you get your info or where you live but you couldn't be more wrong!  Teachers make a decent wage but that is about it.  By the way, teachers, police officers, fireman...they're all pretty much in the same boat.  No other profession that requires as much education pays as poorly as teaching.  I have the same number of years of education as a doctor.  While only four years  and one degree is mandatory, most teachers have earned higher degrees.  In addition, teachers are required to return to school every five years or so at their own expense in order to renew their licenses.  

Teachers generally work a 7.5 hour day under contract.  In all the years I spent teaching, I didn't meet more than a dozen teachers who worked to the contract.  10-hour days are the NORM!  There is no such thing as overtime in most states.  I'm told that some states with really strong unions get such a thing but believe me, those states are RARE!  In addition, teachers work a ten-month contract.  Many have their paychecks voluntarily stretched over the summer months so as to receive a paycheck but the contract is for ten months.  That is why many teachers, particularly the married males find it necessary to work other jobs.  By the way, police officers and fireman usually have to work second or third jobs to make ends meet too.  While we're on the issue of the contract, the ten-month contract typically covers 180-190 days of teaching.

Now, let's talk salary...except for those very few states that have excellent unions, teachers generally start around $33,000 a year.  This has been a fairly recent improvement  to try to attract people into the profession right out of college.  That salary isn't bad for a 21 year old but what they don't tell you is that ten years later, you may only be making $40,000.  With multiple degrees and thirty years of teaching under your belt, you'll be lucky if you hit the mid-$60,000s in most states!

Retirement, Pensions...After thirty years, teachers in most states can retire with about half salary.  That's not bad, but let's not act like it's wonderful or undeserved!  Thirty years is a LONG time to teach students.  You'd better love something to do it that long.  The problem is that most young people going into teaching today quit after FIVE years!!  Let's face it, working conditions are not that great!  It's not like the "old days" when teachers were revered and parents were supportive.  

Most states are experiencing a major teacher shortage, particularly in the areas such as special ed., math, and science.  If everything about it were so wonderful, people would be clammering to enter the profession, not leaving in droves!

So...get your facts straight or at the very least, understand that most states don't experience what your state might!

Answer 14

Where do you live?  In West Virginia, I have an M.Ed plus 60 hours, and I've been teaching for 22 years.  I make less than $48,000/year.  There is no such thing as "mandatory overtime" - I work from 7:45 AM until 3:45 PM at school (with 1/2 hour for lunch) then until about 10:00 PM almost every night, and I also work on Saturdays and Sundays on lesson and unit plans, grading papers, researching for lessons and student activities.  My insurance pays 80%, but we have no dental or optical, so that's all on me.  Being a coach in our county give one a total of less than $1,000 extra per school year.  Oh, West Virginia gets paid next to last of the 50 states.  For the first time ever, I kept a record of all the overtime I've worked this school year (from June of 2007 to May of 2008) - I've worked a total of 378 hours for which I did not get paid - and those are just the hours I remembered to WRITE DOWN.

Answer 15

Your information exists in your wildest dreams!

In Ohio, the minimum number of days a teacher works is 182. Most school districts have added more days. In Ohio the minimum school day for teachers is 7 1/2 hours. If you are lucky, you get a duty free 30 minute lunch period included in that.

I wrote several teacher contracts, usually there is no extra pay for working weekends, for attending meetings before and after school. Most teachers work longer hours than the minimum. My wife usually spent 10 hours a day at school and graded papers another 2 hours a day at home. In Ohio by state law teachers are required to attend workshops, take classes etc. year round at their own cost. By the end of their tenth year teaching, teachers are required to have a Masters Degree, again usually at their own cost and completed on those "summer vacations". The average teacher spends $500 to $1000 of his/her own money equipping his/her classroom every year.

As to medical insurance, most school district do pay about 90%.

As to retirement, in Ohio teachers kick in about 8% of their salaries into the retirement system, the school district pays another 7 to 8 %. So it is a good retirement system, but it isn't free.

The starting salary of a teacher in Ohio is around $28,000 a year. In some school districts it maxs out with a Masters and 30 years teaching at $45,000. Some school districts do pay more, they have to. They also have police in the hallways and 30 students in a class.

There is no mandatory overtime. There is no mandated maximum.

Coaches usually get 1% to 10% extra to coach a sport. Not $5K to $10K.

Answer 16

I would like to know the source for your figures in the second paragraph.  I think you have things all wrong.  I am actually required to be at my campus for 8 hours a day (7:45 AM to 3:45 PM).  State law requires that I am allowed a 30 minute lunch break each day, so 7.5 hours of work.  Now here's another thing - staff meetings, department meetings, and extracurricular activities (not coaching duties) are all required and take place after 3:45 PM, so this can add another 30 to 60 minutes each day to that 7.5, so on average, I'm back up to 8 hours each day.  I don't know where you got this 5 hours a day stuff, but no public school teacher only teaches 5 hours a day and gets paid full-time pay for this.  They may teach for 5 hours and be expected to do other things to make it full-time.  

Now for the number of days.  Again, I'm not sure where you got 160 days, but I am required to work 187 days, and that is the law in the state I live and work in.  You may say, big whoop, 27 more days, but that's actually more than another month of work.  Out of those 187 days, only 7 of them are for professional development and preparation which is certainly not enough time in my opinion.  So I end up doing a lot more work that I actually am not getting paid for.  I'm going to a three-day training later this summer that I will not be paid for even though I will have to pay someone to watch my children.  I will also have to attend several meetings outside of my contract hours because I am introducing a new program at my campus next year that will require a lot of planning and preparation (not getting paid for this extra work, by the way).

And about schools paying for 90% of my benefits, what districts are you talking about because I need to put an application in with them ASAP.  The only thing my district covers is a PORTION of MY health insurance, not my children's, not my spouse's.  I pay for everything else - life, dental, supplemental, etc.  This is the norm for every district in my area.

And retirement being the best in the world - this is not a factual statement, this is an opinion, by the way.  I am REQUIRED to pay into retirement; I don't have a choice.  Almost 7% of my pay is deducted from my check and put into my retirement account.  This is MY MONEY, not the school system paying for my retirement.  And what if how the retirement system chooses to invest my money does not payoff as well as other retirement account options?  I could be losing money!  The only way the school system contributes to my retirement is if I meet the requirements for that to be done, and this means teaching more than 20 years in the same state.  Should I teach in my state for 19 years then move to another state and continue to teach, I can kiss all that retirement goodby (except for what I paid into my retirement account myself).  Oh here another thing you might find interesting.  The state I live in has decided that since all teachers pay into the state retirement fund, our employers do not pay into social security, so I will NEVER receive social security benefits under current law.  And neither will my spouse.  Any other profession that has a retirement account will have both that retirement account and social security to rely on.

What is this mandatory overtime you are speaking of?  My job is a salaried position which means that there is no overtime.  I receive the same pay no matter how many hours I work.  Yes, people can coach and do receive more pay because of this, but they receive this extra pay because they are doing extra work outside of the normal school day - evenings, weekends, and summers are when sports events take place.

Having a second job while teaching?  Sure, this happens, but using your connections to create business is highly out-of-line.  This would be considered a conflict of interest and could get someone into a lot of trouble.  I have a full-time job outside of my teaching job - it's called being a parent and a wife.  And I don't get paid for that!

Like I said, I'm not sure where you are getting your sources from, but your sources are wrong.  And I'm sure that you will receive a lot of response to your post saying the same things that I have said.

A response to your response:

You are insulting my intelligence.  You are obviously attempting to get people fired up over this.

In response to your response to Kahless:

So you have one example?  Just one?  One example is not "typical" or "usual."

In response again:

Yes, I would like to see these contracts posted.  Sure, you can think that teaching is "part-time" and "seasonal," but again, like I've said before, your facts are all wrong.  You are making your argument on the contracts that you have seen.  Just exactly how many contracts have you read?  And did 100% of the ones you have read stated that the person only work 5 hours per day for 160 days per year at 65,000.  Seriously, I want to know what district this is with so I can apply with them IMMEDIATELY!!!!  I want this pay, I want these hours, I want these benefits.  Instead of writing a book, perhaps you should begin a teacher headhunting company and hook us all up with these jobs!  So what you're saying is that your sources for these figures are people's contracts?