Is Reggae really peace loving music?

Question

I keep hearing that reggae is peace loving music and that violence and homophobic lyrics are ruining the music Bob Marley and Peter Tosh made famous.

Umm, since when?

So Bob only sang about three singing birds, shining suns and jamming? Is that it?

I love War, is that about flowers and peace loving in the sunshine, no it's about not accepting racism or facing the violent consequences.

What about Redemption Song, and Who The Cap Fit?

Why Reggae music gets painted with a peace loving island music brush as though that's all there is to it?

I keep hearing the descriptions by foreign journalists complaining about the violence in dancehall, the degradation of women and homophobic lyrics.

What the h**l?

Reggae and dancehall music are more than that. Isn't it?

I just wondered if I was alone in my thinking.

http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=3&STORY_ID=4387&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=2

Answer 1

As far as I know and see, reggae music is not peace loving music in the sense of  "one love" and "peace and unity to all".  Yes, songs such as these have been sung and made famous but for the most part reggae is a protest music that was developed to bring some attention to what was going on in the ghetto.  It was intended to highlight the plight of people who were considered to be "non-people" and were treated as such by the government.  Dancehall, to some extent, still reflects this original intent and serves as a commentary of what is going on in the minds and neighbourhoods of our ghettos.

stingjam.....I understand that you do not like (possibly hate) the idea of homosexuality, but your reasoning as to why hatred towards homosexuals is a problem in Jamaica is logically flawed.  Homosexuals are not to be blamed for the hatred meted out to them in our society.  The examples you cited could very well have been 100% heterosexual and still resulted in the same endings.  We have seen and heard of 'don men' who routinely choose their virgins from the communities they control without any fear of retribution...legal or otherwise.

What on earth do heterosexual Jamaicans have to fear from homosexual Jamaicans???!!  Do they think that homosexuality is contagious??!!  This is ridiculous.   We see and hear heterosexual men and women brag about their exploits and show PDA without batting an eyelid but as an homosexual does that, then "Oh my God!  They are too bright and bold."  How hypocritical is that?!  Nobody needs to force anyone to accept homosexuals, but people should be made to understand that people are free to love whomever they please without fearing for their lives.  Homosexuals are no more rapists than heterosexuals and the rape of a girl/woman is no less horrible than that of a boy/man.  You know as well as I do that attacks against homosexuals by heterosexuals are more likely to go unpunished than the other way around.  

Y'know what's funny and hypocritcal about us Jamaicans?  We go to the States and other countries and live and work with people who are openly homosexual and not bat an eyelid.  Why?  These people's rights are protected by the law.  We may not like it, but we cannot stop them from living their lives.  In Jamaica people don't get half as riled up about adults having s*x with school girls on buses as they do about consenting adults of the same s*x living together in a steady relationship. The hypocrisy doesn't stop there either...this venom of hate is much more often directed at men than women.

I think the primary reason we harbour such resentment toward homosexuals has a lot to do with our Judeo-Christian society and upbringing.   We have been taught that certain sexual acts are not condoned by God and therefore will always be wrong.  Another part of the reason is that we haven't evolved mentally as a society when it comes to s*x.   This is reflected in the fact that, despite all the evidence available, our government still refuses to acknowledge that a woman CAN rape a man.  Also, s*x is still considered a "bad" thing and homosexual s*x is the ultimate sin.    Why do we still have anti-buggery and anti-sodomy laws?  What right does the government have to dictate what goes on in people's bedrooms between or among consenting adults?  Why not just have GOOD anti-rape laws?

You're right, dancehall music did not cause the hate, but some artistes do an excellent job of perpetuating it.  I think they would be better off spreading the message of tolerance than hate.  Where are these artistes when babies are raped?  Our money is being siphoned off by our politicians?  Innocent families are burned in their homes in gang retaliation while soldiers and neighbours watch??

***EDIT***

stingjam...You stated that the reason Jamaicans hate homosexuals is that they fear them.  I disagree and was merely pointing out if that were true then the same supposed 'fear' they have of homosexuals SHOULD be the same 'fear' they have of heterosexuals who commit the same crimes...which, as we both know, is not the case.  The "secret culture" of which you speak serves both heterosexuals and homosexuals....sexual orientation has nothing to do with who's protected by powerful people.  As a Jamaican, I'm sure you know that.  The homosexuals who get beaten, chased and killed are not usually the "protected" ones.  They are the unfortunate ones whose only "crime" is being homosexual.  This hatred is NOT carried over to heterosexuals who commit real crimes.  When was the last time a man was beaten for fondling an underaged schoolgirl?  When was the last time a heterosexual rapist was chased out of town?  When was the last time a heterosexual murderer had to be resuced by the police from an angry mob?  

The real fact is that Jamaicans would rather turn a blind eye to these people in their communities because they know that they might be putting their lives in danger.  The real fact is that they DO NOT fear homosexuals which is why they are more likely to attack them.  They know that people are more likely to join them in their attack and that the police is less likely to charge them for any offences.

Of course, christianity (when practiced as it's supposed to) does not support murder; however, the fact is, it IS used by many Jamaicans as justification for the hatred against homosexuals.  Many people who are violent toward homosexuals feel as though they are doing something good.  How many religious leaders do you hear "bunning" the violence against homosexuals?  How many people who call themselves christians try to speak out or act in an effort to curtail this violent behaviour?  The fact is most don't because they're caught between the fear of someone accusing them of being homosexuals themselves and the belief that those people were doing something sinful anyway so (maybe) they deserve what they get....even if it's murder.

By the way, have you ever REALLY thought about why you find homosexuality disgusting?  I'm sure you'd find that your Judeo-Christian upbringing has a lot more to do with it than you think.

To solve the problem of fear or phobia, when there is no real basis for it, is to EDUCATE and ENLIGHTEN people.  Irrational fear is borne of ignorance.  THAT is the root of the problem.  As I've stated before, while anti-g*y dancehall songs are not the cause of the problem, they only serve to exacerbate it.

I wouldn't call Bob Marley homophobic IF he would "bun" all crimes regardless of who committed them. However, if he were to sing only anti-g*y songs, then you bet I'd say he's homophobic.

***EDIT 2***

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, stingjam.  You say Jamaicans' homophobia is borne of "fear"; I think it's an aversion to the idea, borne of ignorance, based largely on how we were socialized.  Solution = education.  Peace out.

Answer 2

why are dem hatin on reggae so much? If ya dont like it, dont listen, end of story. Caribbean people aren't agreable regarding homo-ness and everyone is entitled to dem opinion.

REAL TALK stingjam!

Answer 3

DANCEHALL is not the issue. The issue is attitudes towards Homosexuality in Jamaica.

Having read the link you posted, I will say I find the concept of homosexual intercourse DISGUSTING. This has nothing to do with 'murder music'. i just don't like the idea of homosexual intercourse.

But who am i to judge another man or woman? I don't condone killing anybody for being g*y. I am not a biblically endorsed judge, jury or executioner.

THE REAL PROBLEM

What i would ask logical people to think about is WHERE does this 'hatred' come from? The music does NOT cause it. There has been violence against homosexuals in Jamaica from BEFORE shabba or buju started singing. As a matter of fact it was WORST in the past.  Not necessarily more murder, but more incidents.

Jamaica is different from the U.S.A and everywhere else. When i come across people who are q***r in the USA or elsewhere, I COULDNT CARE LESS what they are. i dont care what they want to do in private. i dont even have a 'gaydar'. I niether know nor care who is g*y or straight. I am not FORCED to care either. In business and many areas of american life, sexual orientation is just irrelevant. The army is one place, and the 'office' is another. Certain social rules of business, law and decency apply for EVERYONE'S comfort and protection.

Jamaica is MUCH different:

Example 1:

DO you think a US Ambassador could have been raping and molesting, video taping and blackmailing young boys for over 25 years and STILL be a free man? Do you think such a person could have remained in office for almost the ENTIRE time and be stopped only by his own violent murder?

Most importantly: Did JFLAG report this as another homophobic murder? or did it speak of it as an evil, powerful man who RAPED and blackmailed, and was possibly killed by his victim in revenge? People in power have KNOWN of this particular man's ways and it was merely a 'widely-known secret' until he was murdered and the tapes were found in his house. It included images of DRUGGED adults and adolescents being assaulted.

Example 2:

When a top jamaican footballer was disgusted by the loud and deliberately disruptive manorisms of a group of g*y men walking through a local supermarket, and those men reacted by ATTACKING, FONDLING and GROPING HIM. What effect do you think that HAD on the Jamaican reading that story?

There are NUMEROUS true stories where g*y people in Jamaica make citizens more SCARED of them...Many people in Jamaica are TRULY homophobic - They are SCARED because on a weekly basis, many of the BOLDEST g**s molest children, fondle adults and try to do all sorts of things AND THE LAW turns a blind eye because the perception is that many POWERFUL corrupt people are g*y in Jamaica. Homophobia is REAL in Jamaica. Not based on 'hatred'. Its based on FEAR.

The image of powerful wealthy politicians and businessmen using thier money to commit homosexual statutory rape is SCARY to many Jamaicans.

What does JFLAG do? They try to hide the fact that this is happening. They hide the fact that this is the situation that is DRIVING public anger (much worst than the concept of 'american gringos' demoralizing locals in Central and South America). Hetorosexual people feel powerless in Jamaica. They feel that it is more important for international groups to force ALL aspects of homosexuality into public acceptance Jamaica, than for international groups to DISTANCE themselves from and even seek to erradicate the instances of homosexual assault that FUEL homophobia here. The political cause is willing to win at ANY cost.

During all their attacks on homophobic dancehall artistes, has ANY g*y person EVER recognized that the MANAGER of one of the Artistes repeatedly banned by GLBT activists was said to be g*y? Was the manager beaten? No. He has become a politician with more power than EVER.  

I am not saying that most people in Jamaica will EVER be fully accepting of homosexuals. I am NOT saying that VIOLENCE is acceptable either.  I am saying that they should stop trying to fight the MORALS of the country and attack the REAL source of the nations fears. That is:

Behaviour that is disgusting and illegal by ANY country's standards that remains HIDDEN in Jamaican society.  

Consider the fact that the anti-buggery and anti-sodomy laws are the ONLY explicit lawful defense that Jamaicans believe they have to combat this particular kind of problem that they are afraid of in their society.  EVEN if the law is only of symbolic value, at least it exists.

Now in the context of ALL that i have said? Where does dancehall music really factor in? All they are really doing is saying something that 'enough' powerless, literate and illiterate people in the dancehall can relate to. Dancehall music figuratively 'burns' anything that the masses consider wrong, from corruption, to rape and petty theft.  The goal is INTENSE EXPRESSION of the peoples concerns, not to incite violence.  This is where the dancehall music IS just like Bob Marley's "War" or "I shot the sherif".

By attacking Dancehall you will acheive NOTHING but political propaganda. Until you go to the ROOT of the society, nothing will change. The people will continue to feel as if their world is being attacked and violence will still be a possibility, regardless of the type of music that is being played.

Read a qoute from a journalists posting:

"it is safe to say that the emotional temperature in the country has spiked a notch or two in the wake of the P**** K*** s*x Tape saga seems to have increased the level of homophobia. Last week, gunshots echoed across the University of the West Indies, (UWI) as police tried to stop an angry mob of students from killing an alleged homosexual. At the time, the mob believed that the man had attempted to ‘molest’ another student in a bathroom on campus, ..."

web angel:

i DID NOT EVER say that all homosexuals are rapists. i don't believe that at all. I am saying that the secret culture in Jamaica that protects powerful men (& women) from being prosecuted for assault, homosexual rape and pedophila is a major factor in stirring the people's aggression. It is a distorted MINDSET that is being fuelled by REAL facts.

The very EXAMPLE you speak of is proof: The 'dons' in ghetto communities are feared. They have the same impunity as the politicians - Taking children and abusing them without consequence. The masses are POWERLESS to do anything about it.

Christianity doesn't support MURDER so christianity is NO real excuse or justification for attacking another human being, especially not while men and women commit adultery every day. Religious justifications are really just a superficial DISTRACTION.

If you want to solve the problem of FEAR, as with ANY phobia, you MUST go to the root of the fear. Anti-g*y dancehall songs are just a superficial blemish resulting from a deep societal problem. So long as the root cause is still there, attacking dancehall music is simply going to bring about MORE ANGER. Is that what we need in this world? NO.

Dancehall is what reggae was....a microphone to the inner voice of many jamaican ghettos. But dancehall is deeper, darker, and reflective of more serious issues in Jamaica's ghettos.

If Bob MARLEY was alive he definately would have a problem with poor kids being raped by rich and powerful dons, businessmen and politicians. Would you call him homophobic for that?

EDIT 2:

Web angel. Have you EVER been attacked or assaulted by a g*y extremist? Someone who truly believes in shedding blood, burning tires and 'sexually caressing' anyone who disapproves of them? The so-called quest for equality has made it unpopular for a heterosexual to complain in all but the most extreme cases of assault... complain and the next thing you hear is that you are 'homophobic'.

The day YOU get assaulted, you will find out what the real facts are. g**s need to stop covering up for the criminally disgusting ones among them.  Dont be like COPs and thier proverbial 'blue wall' to defend their friends at all cost. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

Answer 4

REGGAE MUSIC IS THE GENRE OF MUSIC THAT DOES NOT PROMOTE VIOLENCE OR ITS LYRICS CONTAIN N E SORT OF VIOLENCE.

DANCEHALL HOWEVER DOES PROMOTE VIOLENCE

AND THESE TYPE OF MUSIC IS ALREADY ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE,

SO CRITICS (WHO ARE USUALLY BIASED PEOPLE JUDGING THE MUSIC BCUZ THEY DONT HEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR)......THEY HAVE ALREADY GIVEN JAMAICA A BAD PRESS, LETTING TOHER PEOPLE THINK IT IS ALL ABOUT VIOLENCE THEY CAN SAY ALL THEY WANT ABOUT OUR MUSIC.... PEOPLE STILL DOING THE DUTTY WINE.....LOL

I LOVE THE MUSIC

♥JAMAICAN♥

Answer 5

I'm with you.

I love Reggae, real reggae

By Peace Loving, which I would say reggae is,

I take the reality one endures while trying to find peace, part of the music. Bob, Peter, Jimmy, spoke for the people who just wanted to live in peace.

Sometimes one has to fight to find peace.

Peace Loving as in only 'happy' lyrics, not always, so NO there.

There is music out there today that is being labeled as Reggae and it is not. They sing nothing about the  search for a peaceful existance.

These are the songs with the homophobic, and degrading women type lyrics.

Different styles of music have these sort of lyrics.

Hey, it is a freedom of expression, but don't mix it in with a kind of music that speaks of a whole different issue.