Is TKD becoming a laughing stock ?

Question

when i first set out on the journey TKD had a feirce warrior tradition going back to the ancient land of silla and the hwrang-do warriors-feircesome soldiers whose enemies underestimated at their cost-it was from here that TKD was spawned.

i was recently castigated by my colleagues for recommending that all students at 1st gup and above (black tag) would only wear a headguard gumsheild and pad-mitts for full-contact sparring (as opposed to full body protection) and in fact it was this same instructor who on learning that myself and another 3rd dan would spar without pads exclaimed "ok but if you get hurt don't blame us"-myself and the other guy having something like 60 years experience between us.

all that matters now is what the patterns look like.

your thoughts please.

Answer 1

I'd like to take a moment to be horribly immature......

"In the the late 1060's when I first began seriously training"

Pugpaws has some serious martial arts experience!

Ok sorry.......

Back to your question. Although I have never trained in Tae Kwon Do personally, I have observed gradings in different schools. I don't believe it is the art itself that has become a laughing stock, as there are many great and respected TKD practicioners. However, the amount of McDojos and black belt acadamies that seem to specialise in TKD is giving it a bad name. Some gradings I have seen seemed like a memory test of forms, with very little technique. This is not the students fault though, it is their teacher who is doing a great dis-service to an art that I'm sure was once formidable. I feel that the modern version has been watered down.

Answer 2

yes

Answer 3

What does this have to do with Tae Kwon Do becoming a laughing stock?

If you want to put yourself at risk with full contact sparring and not wear a cup, kneepads or elbow pads....that's your call. That doesn't make the martial art a laughing stock.

Your instructor(s) are only telling you that if you get hurt...not to come back on them and try to say that they told you to do it that way...cuz it's not what they'd recommend. They are protecting themselves from any potiential lawsuit by saying this, as the last thing any of them want is for you to get hurt doing it, and if you do...to come back and try to blame them for it.

That doesn't make one of the oldest and most respected martial arts out there a laughing stock.

Oh, btw....my 2 years experiance come from 2 highly respected teachers (Jim Davis and Grandmaster Phil Minton)...I just thought I'd throw that out there. Minton is highly respected as a self defense person, not a sport combat guy. I've watched him take someone with 1 finger on their ear and lead them to the principal's office (Minton is also an art teacher at Otter Creek Middle School in Terre Haute, Indiana). The man knows what to do. Granted, for money purposes...he does allow people to go into tournements...but he won't let you get into a tournament until he deems you ready by his standards, not just because you are in program A or program B and that's your scheduled tournament. That's how he trains his instructors as well...since he wants the legacy of Tae Kwon Do to be safe for future generations and for the teaching to not be watered down c**p. (if you look at the first ever Tae Kwon Do World magazine...you'll see Minton on the Cover btw).

Answer 4

Most martial arts at this point are a laughing stock in the US. It's nearly impossible to find a good, honest school that will teach you properly. As far as first gup and higher wearing ANY protective gear in sparring, in my training in Taekwondo/Hapkido, we stopped wearing gear at brown belt for sparring. If you can't control your art at brown belt when you're training to test for black, you shouldn't have the rank OR progress.

These days, they're hardly 'martial' arts at all, as there is no real risk or fear for safety involved. Why do we see two fighters jumping around and throwing sloppy kicks at one another with little care? Because nothing is at stake - they don't need to calculate distance or think beyond their next move becuase everything is so safe, sterile, and padded. When you take the pads away, they become incapable of functioning or being alive in battle becuase they're faced with fear of injury. Suddenly something is on the line, and they're unprepared for it. The lack of discipline, honor, and dedication are eating away at once proud arts and turning them into Colluseum-esque matches in which nobody cares about technique or skill, but rather they only wish to see blood and injury.

Like the UFC.

Personnally, this is why I continue to train daily - to ensure in some small way that the arts my Sabumnim passed on to me through tireless hours of dedication do not disappear and fade into obscurity. If I can accomplish this, even in a small way, then it is a success to me.

Answer 5

I'm not a Tae Kwon Do martial artist. I'm a mixed martial artist. And I can tell you that TKD is a laughing stock to people like me, because most of the techniques don't work in real life fights. Martial arts like Tae Kwon Do are useless against trained martial artists.

And about Jeet Kune Do XDXDXD. You seriously think that's a good martial art? Go home... 'nuf said.

None the less. Tae Kwon DO nowadays is more about fitness. I'm sure in the past they had more devastating fighting tactics, but as is common knowledge most martial arts are evolving towards sport karate and not actual self defense. Things like TKD and Shotokan are leading this race.

I'm not saying your martial arts are bad, just incomplete in most forms that are being taught. I don't know for all I know your form of TKD may have been passed down by someone who knew actual combat applications, so I may be in the wrong for saying all of this, however this is what I've seen.

Answer 6

Times have certainly changed.  I remember being a white belt in Kenpo karate for a year before Orange belt.

But I think some of the change is for the better.

You see, the WTF and most Korean TKD Masters believe that TKD is for everyone.

Each individual person has their own TKD potential. A person who is more athletic, coordinated, balanced, reflexes, strength and power is going to be less "sloppy" than someone who has sat behind a keyboard or never played any other sports their whole life.

A person can know the belt advancement requirements from an "academic" standpoint, but they may not have the "physical" ability to execute the moves as well as a more athletic person could.

I have belonged to gyms/dojos where new students trialed the class and tried to quit certain activities and were told "Hey, this isnt for everyone, if you can't hang with us then maybe you should try something else."

Conversely, TKD masters think TKD is for everyone. They realize that most people gain an interest in martial arts for reasons other than being a competitor or being a bad a$$. They use TKD training for mental strength, stress relief, self confidence, commaradirie, self control, weight loss and overall self improvement.

These students are the majority, not the minority. They are not fueled by testosterone and blood lust. Their motivation is different from that of a competitive person. But they can't just be left a white and yellow belts forever. They know the moves, but student "A" may not be as good as student "B".

As a result, you see alot of sloppy technique. But, I will say that this slop tends to improve after black belt. They start going to the smaller, more advanced classes, and get more 1 on 1 time with advanced students who take the time to improve their technique.

When I first started at my current TKD school, I was somewhat appalled by what I considered to be a low standard of some medium range belts.

Over time, I've developed an appreciation for these students and have helped them get better.

The impact TKD has had on their lives is positive, and even though they suck compared to other students, I think it's great that they have not quit.

I can accept that some may have a false sense of confidence, but they are certainly more prepared than someone who has never trained at all.

The belt you wear or the style you practice will not determine the outcome of a fight or an attack. It's the other factors, experience, speed, quickness, agility, timing, reaction, athletic ability, balance, speed, power and even luck that will have a much greater impact on the outcome.

James

Answer 7

Now it is more about catering to the soccer mums and kids, it all about money and not being sued if one of the kids in the class get a broken nail or finger.

There are still classes and schools out there that will keep the traditions going but most are worried about not getting sued then teaching the art correctly. Well that is my option on the matter.

Answer 8

its just about safety. in this day and age u do something stupid get ur teeth knocked out and the instructer gets blamed. he gets sued and goes to jail. tkd is not soft. its just from a legal perspective u can't go full contact unless u sign a waver saying the club is not responsible for ur safety

Answer 9

What you are talking about has been a problem in the USA a long time sadly to say.

It is not ALL TKD, it is those McDojo's and such.

A TRUE TKD school with lineage to its roots in Korea are not bad. It is a known fact during the Korean Conflict that they taught GI's but it was a very watered down version.  Only a few got the real thing and that is what yo have to find, is some one that knows the real thing.

I concur Patterns over and over and nothing else is a waste. Their is so much more, that is just one tool of training.

Answer 10

I don't think taekwondo has become a joke. Perhaps some of the schools that teach it have though. From what I've heard on Y!A, there are a lot of McDojangs in America. I'm from Scotland, where most of the schools don't make a good profit, so no McDojangs really survive here. The only way any school can thrive is to attract students with high quality training. Maybe that's why in some places, people are getting their belts way too easily.

As an adult (and black belt) it's up to you whether you want to wear full protective gear or not. Your instructor is probably just thinking of the safety aspect, and he won't want to be liable if anything goes wrong.

As for taekwondo going all the way back to Silla and the Hwarang - I'm not so sure. It was originally founded by General Choi Hong Hi in the 1950s, but it does draw on the ancient Korean art of Taekkyeon, which was reputedly taught to the Hwarang. So although it's a fairly new art in comparison to other traditional arts, it has some strong traditional roots.

Answer 11

it is a weak martial art and always will be ...no art of fighting can match JEET KUNE DO  ive been studin it for 20 years

Answer 12

yes it is a laughing stock  TAE CLOWN DO is worthless on the street those katas u learn dont do **** for you on the streets nor do the beautiful kicks its just a for show art anymore

Answer 13

this is written more like a poetic novel of the Spartans  and their heroic deeds; rather than a question fit for such as us on the martial arts section  of yahoo answers

Answer 14

Dude, if your opponent is injured because of you, and because of that injury they can't defend themselves on the streets, it will be your fault and thus you are legally liable.  Think about it.  You train in a dojang because, hey, it can be dangerous out there.

Answer 15

I've been keenly aware of TKD since the early 1960's. My own training has overlapped Korean arts many times. Yet I have never studied in a Dojang. That was intentional.  In the the late 1060's when I first began seriously training, I was aware of a few TKD instructors and students that had the real thing. By that I mean that they had serious self-defense skills. I watched plane loads of Korean Instructors move to America. During the 1970's the joke was about the airplane promotions.  That referred to the fact that many of the so called masters, were in fact much lower in rank officially in Korea, before coming to the U.S.A.  As more TKD dojang opened up more martial arts schools began to sell belt contracts. The prices began to climb along with this. As the years went on the quality of instruction was obviously lower than what was seen in the 1960's.  Larger and larger numbers of black belts began to come out of these dojang. TKD became more of a sport and less of a self-defense skill. The emphasis shifted to being flexible so as to kick high. Another thing was the lowering of the age requirement for students. In the 1960's it was rare to see more than a few children training. Those that did were usually more mature. As the years went on the standards for rank promotion continued to decline. Contracts got more expensive and younger and younger children began to train.  Today The local TKD dojang near me has at least 100 children wearing black belts. I've visited both the children's and adult classes. What I see is really sad. Many of the Black Belts don't even know how to tie their belts. The master instructors (at least 3 or 4) look like they are not old enough to be out of high school yet.  It is obvious that they are flexible and kick well. Other than that they can spar and do forms. Their sparring would get them killed if facing someone that has trained in the real art. As for their forms they serve only as a a requirement. None of the students has a clue what the forms really mean.

So now I ask you, has TKD become a laughing stock?  In a few rare cases, I'd say no. Unfortunately, 99% of TKD is questionable at best.