Is ethanol a scam?

Question

i heard it takes more than 1 gallon of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethanol.

Answer 1

yup not too mention the High Nitrogen and Phospherous fertilizers and the release of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere when the stubble decays

Answer 2

Subsidies for ethanol is a scam.  Ethanol production through farming is not a scam, it's a PIPE-DREAM.

Think of how you're gonna produce that ethanol?  You use farms that grow grain and instead of producing food you produce grain to distill into alcohol.  Now think of the massive amounts of gasoline that we use.  If we start using crops to make energy we suddenly will have a price inflation of a different sort.  Food prices will increase and so would the price for that ethanol.  You suddenly have an incredible increase of prices on both sides because you have to feed mouths and run autos from the same land.  Populations keep increasing, but land keeps getting more and more scarce.  Thinking that we can 'grow' our fuel is a nice idea, but there are serious complications that simply say "BAD IDEA".

Answer 3

Ethanol is the Largest Scam in Our Nation's History

NICHOLAS E. HOLLIS / Agribusiness Examiner, i.255, 6jun03

Nicholas E Hollis is the President of the Agribusiness Council

Apparently, ethanol's opposition—primarily the oil companies and the highway lobby, have been bought off with special concessions. The increased subsidy will now be funded directly out of the U.S. Treasury instead of surreptitiously being siphoned from the Highway Trust Fund. And the oxygenate requirement enacted in 1990 as part of an environment effort to reduce emissions will be scrapped...(I wonder if EPA administrator Whitman's resignation last week had anything to do with this!)

The old hogwash about getting "energy independent" and helping corn farmers keeps building votes- pushed by an aggressive phalanx of paid association liars and bought politicians. . . . The corn gluten angle and even the fact that ethanol reduces engine life and delivers lower gas mileage than conventional unleaded seems a tad too complicated for the journalists to pick up on.

Just as the ethanol has created massive distortions and dysfunctions in the nation, particularly the farm sector, since its introduction in the late 1970's, we can count on more distortions and nasty surprises in the years ahead if this moves forward. You'd think after all the years of phoney arguments from phoney trade groups established by the Supermarkup to the World [Archer Daniels Midland]—a number of which were cited as facades to cover price-fixing cartels by the Federal prosecutors—that some investigative authority would dig deeper.

Ethanol is the largest scam in our Nation's history—only the controlled media won't report the story—and if Congress rachets the subsidy up anymore, this twisted policy (still largely benefiting one company which holds a near monopoly position in the industry) has the potential of undermining our food security.

We can a glimpse of the "nature of things to come" when we analyze how ADM engineered its latest hostile take-over of Minnesota Corn Processors (MCP) a large ethanol-producing, farmer owned cooperative in Marshall, Minnesota. Using a practiced blend of deceit, cash carrots, fear and strong arm legal tactics, ADM crushed resistance among MCP board members to its "offer which could not be refused" at a MCP meeting where most members didn't even know the sale of their coop was on the agenda - until it was too late. (Editor's Note: See Issue #220)

Other farmer owned cooperatives which have entertained "partnerships" with the Plains Predator from Decatur—such as Farmland Industries, Countrymark, Gromark and others have seen their assets and independence disappear, with their elected leaders winking at ADM and waltzing into retirement with huge "golden parachute" deals, (or seats on ADM's board) while their farmer members are left holding an empty bag—watching ADM quietly disposing of the prized elevators and ag input supply networks (initially put up as collateral to support the ADM loans provided to the cash strapped coops).

The notion that we can ferment up to a third of all corn for ethanol demand takes the madness to a new level. ADM recognizes the vulnerability this strategy of a monocrop reliance—and is desperately trying to force a normalization of Cuba trade in order to begin modernization of that rogue country's low cost sugar industry. Sugar is a more efficient feedstock for ethanol. Of course, this objective is never mentioned.

The ultimate absurdity involves ethanol /farm economics. Ethanol requires low cost corn for its wet milling process. When corn prices per bushel rise above a certain level—clearly benefiting corn farmers—the ethanol plants become uneconomical to operate. With less ethanol produced there would be less corn gluten (a by-product of processing) which competes with soymeal as an animal feed ingredient—thus soybean prices would increase—another benefit to many Midwestern farmers—but this too goes unreported.

One of these days someone may awaken the Nation to the magnitude of this scam. But with honest farmers muzzled and intimidated by the very groups purportedly established to represent their interests—and most everyone else sleep walking in a dream that cheap energy and cheap food can be sustained in this manner, we are gambling with our Nation's food security and economic health. More dangerous still, we are allowing more power to be transferred to a proven criminal culture which will undoubtedly recycle a portion of the ill-gotten gains further corrupting the Nation's political process and institutions of democracy.

Answer 4

In  a way  u produce the same amount of CO2 for the same work.

Answer 5

If

For use in internal combustion engines, yes

made from food crops, yes

The BEST use for ethanol most likely will be direct ethanol fuel cells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/direct-etha...

With this type fuel cell you should get about twice the fuel mileage of gasoline.

It does not take special fuel handling equipment like hydrogen.

It can be pumped with gasoline pumps found in today's filling stations

We already have the plants to make it.

If we burn the waste products  from the process to power the plant (not done in the US) and inject the CO2 deep underground(also not done in the US) this fuel would be as clean as hydrogen.

Answer 6

read this about ethanol production

Only transient Aliens could have aproved that.

They are intending to replace most of the indigenous Forrest's in the world ,with mono cultures for the production of Ethanol,

Non sustainable, chemically grown ,heavily irrigated (with water needed for communities)one specie Forrest's,that have only plagues of insects as fauna which are controlled with pesticides.

Killing all bio diversity,in both flora and fauna ,adding to the destruction and extinction of species ,like nothing we have ever seen before.

All in the quest for alternative energy and to save the Environment ,

The irony here is that the growing eagerness to slow climate change by using biofuels and planting millions of trees for carbon credits has resulted in new major causes of deforestation, say activists. And that is making climate change worse because deforestation puts far more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire world's fleet of cars, trucks, planes, trains and ships combined.

"Biofuels are rapidly becoming the main cause of deforestation in countries like Indonesia, Malaysia and Brazil," said Simone Lovera, managing coordinator of the Global Forest Coalition, an environmental NGO based in Asunción, Paraguay. "We call it 'deforestation diesel'," Lovera told IPS.

Oil from African palm trees is considered to be one of the best and cheapest sources of biodiesel and energy companies are investing billions into acquiring or developing oil-palm plantations in developing countries. Vast tracts of forest in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and many other countries have been cleared to grow oil palms. Oil palm has become the world's number one fruit crop, well ahead of bananas.

Biodiesel offers many environmental benefits over diesel from petroleum, including reductions in air pollutants, but the enormous global thirst means millions more hectares could be converted into monocultures of oil palm. Getting accurate numbers on how much forest is being lost is very difficult.

The FAO's State of the World's Forests 2007 released last week reports that globally, net forest loss is 20,000 hectares per day -- equivalent to an area twice the size of Paris. However, that number includes plantation forests, which masks the actual extent of tropical deforestation, about 40,000 hectares (ha) per day, says Matti Palo, a forest economics expert who is affiliated with the Tropical Agricultural Research and Higher Education Center (CATIE) in Costa Rica.

"The half a million ha per year deforestation of Mexico is covered by the increase of forests in the U.S., for example," Palo told IPS.

National governments provide all the statistics, and countries like Canada do not produce anything reliable, he said. Canada has claimed no net change in its forests for 15 years despite being the largest producer of pulp and paper. "Canada has a moral responsibility to tell the rest of the world what kind of changes have taken place there," he said.

Plantation forests are nothing like natural or native forests. More akin to a field of maize, plantation forests are hostile environments to nearly every animal, bird and even insects. Such forests have been shown to have a negative impact on the water cycle because non-native, fast-growing trees use high volumes of water. Pesticides are also commonly used to suppress competing growth from other plants and to prevent disease outbreaks, also impacting water quality.

Plantation forests also offer very few employment opportunities, resulting in a net loss of jobs. "Plantation forests are a tremendous disaster for biodiversity and local people," Lovera said. Even if farmland or savanna are only used for oil palm or other plantations, it often forces the local people off the land and into nearby forests, including national parks, which they clear to grow crops, pasture animals and collect firewood. That has been the pattern with pulp and timber plantation forests in much of the world, says Lovera.

Ethanol is other major biofuel, which is made from maize, sugar cane or other crops. As prices for biofuels climb, more land is cleared to grow the crops. U.S. farmers are switching from soy to maize to meet the ethanol demand. That is having a knock on effect of pushing up soy prices, which is driving the conversion of the Amazon rainforest into soy, she says. Meanwhile rich countries are starting to plant trees to offset their emissions of carbon dioxide, called carbon sequestration. Most of this planting is taking place in the South in the form of plantations, which are just the latest threat to existing forests. "Europe's carbon credit market could be disastrous," Lovera said.

The multi-billion-euro European carbon market does not permit the use of reforestation projects for carbon credits. But there has been a tremendous surge in private companies offering such credits for tree planting projects. Very little of this money goes to small land holders, she says. Plantation forests also contain much less carbon, notes Palo, citing a recent study that showed carbon content of plantation forests in some Asian tropical countries was only 45 percent of that in the respective natural forests. Nor has the world community been able to properly account for the value of the enormous volumes of carbon stored in existing forests.

One recent estimate found that the northern Boreal forest provided 250 billion dollars a year in ecosystem services such as absorbing carbon emissions from the atmosphere and cleaning water. The good news is that deforestation, even in remote areas, is easily stopped. All it takes is access to some low-cost satellite imagery and governments that actually want to slow or halt deforestation. Costa Rica has nearly eliminated deforestation by making it illegal to convert forest into farmland, says Lovera.

Paraguay enacted similar laws in 2004, and then regularly checked satellite images of its forests, sending forestry officials and police to enforce the law where it was being violated. "Deforestation has been reduced by 85 percent in less than two years in the eastern part of the country," Lovera noted. The other part of the solution is to give control over forests to the local people. This community or model forest concept has proved to be sustainable in many parts of the world. India recently passed a bill returning the bulk of its forests back to local communities for management, she said.

However, economic interests pushing deforestation in countries like Brazil and Indonesia are so powerful, there may eventually be little natural forest left. "Governments are beginning to realize that their natural forests have enormous value left standing," Lovera said. "A moratorium or ban on deforestation is the only way to stop this."

This story is part of a series of features on sustainable development by IPS and IFEJ - International Federation of Environmental Journalists.

© 2007 IPS - Inter Press Service

Source: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/...

Answer 7

Making ethanol from corn is very inefficient it is basically backed by farmers who want more money for their crops and the amount of corn needed is just obsurd especially when it is diverted from food stocks.

However ethenol can be produced much more efficiently with other crops like sugar cane and sugar beets which if I remember correctly need 1/10th the energy input for the same amount of output.  So why doesn't the us use those crops basically the lack of land with a supporting climate for high sugar crops and the fact that farmers like to grow what they know.  There are promises of better technology such as bioengineering bacteria to breakdown cellulose (basically any plant matter) into sugar for more efficient ethanol production but until then I think it would be better to switch to things like biodiesel from waste oil or hybrid cars.

Answer 8

Oil is subsidized about $3 per gallon in the US while ethanol is only 50c per gallon.    I think nearly 1.5 gallons of ethanol can now be produced  for each gallon of oil used when corn is the feedstock.    Ethanol produces less energy per gallon than oil does though, so its probably a break even deal on the amount of energy we use and get from ethanol except now we are subsidizing it the three dollars for the oil used to make it and the 50c for the end product and degrading our farmland all that much faster and raising the price of food drastically in the bargain.    Sounds like a government giveaway to get votes at the expense of the rest of the country to me.

Answer 9

That's only true for corn alcohol grown using petrochemicals and gas powered tractors, etc. There are ways of doing it extremely efficiently. Especially using switchgrass.

Answer 10

Amen Bob!  The U.S. cannot produce enough corn to make the amount of ethanol to come anywhere close to our needs.  It is causing price increases on numerous other products that uses corn such as beef, pork, poultry, corn oil, and many other products.  Farmers are also dedicating land to corn that was previously used to farm something else which is driving up the cost of those products.  

  The longer this scam is in effect, the harder it will be to dismantle.  More and more businesses will be set up to produce ethanol which means more people to lobby congress to subsidize it.  This will cost us even more because these subsidies come from our tax dollars.  Even more, vehicles cost more and get really bad millage when the are running ethanol.  More hard earned money from our pockets.

Answer 11

Oil is subsidized?  Would you car to support that claim with some facts?