Is how unconvincing Christians are, and the Bible is, fair grounds to condemn an unbeliever to h**l?

Question

An atheist who is open to evidence and argument is merely waiting for a Christian to bring forth cogent arguments and substantial evidence to support his case for the belief in a God, and specifically a Christian God. If theists fail to provide good arguments and evidence, why should an atheist be condemned for the incompetence of those who follow God? Isn’t that unjust of God, if he does exist? I mean you wouldn’t find it fair for a father to punish his son for not being able to understand Spanish, if that same father sent a person to teach his son Spanish, who himself could not speak the language? How about a more apt analogy? If a father knew that his son was in peril out in the wilderness due to an imminent attack by bears, and instead of getting his son himself, he sent a stranger, that the son did not recognize, into the wilderness and that stranger told him that he is his father’s friend and that he was told to by his father to bring his son home, should the son be held accountable for not believing the stranger? The son, being skeptical of strangers, as all cautious good boys should be, would and should rebuff the stranger. Now would it be fair of the father to let his son be mauled by bears out in the wilderness because the son was naturally skeptical of the stranger. Wouldn’t it make sense for the father, who is more than capable of fetching his son himself, to get the son so that he is not victimized by his own skepticism?

Answer 1

Your point is well taken, but since h**l is a fiction (as are god, heaven, angels, etc. etc.)  such a condemnation is hardly relevant -- or even of interest.

Answer 2

I'm not too sure of your direction of this question. So... your argument is that God should reach out to you and you should be rewarded with eternal life? Also, that a "stranger" who brings you the word of God that you reject is justified because they are a stranger?

First of all, the Bible is available much more readily than ever, internet, bible on cd, Wal mart, everywhere almost. This is the Father reaching out to his child to save him/her. God works through his followers, not all who go out in his name are the best examples (granted). I mean, you are right in seeing them saying "you'll burn in h**l" is a condemnation, God tells his believers to Condemn not and judge not.

Now, the Bible, by itself is proof enough for Christians, then you ask for proof outside of it. It is our only way to God, his word that has been written down. All scripture, it is written, is God breathed.

If the word of God is not sufficient enough for you, you can compare what is written about future events, called prophesies and how (in detail) they came true, many many years later.

God does reach out to you, if you do not want to rely on some man "stranger" then read the Bible for yourself, all of it and let it speak to you. Reading 1 or 2 chapters, is not reading the Bible. I hope you choose to understand and learn about God, with an open mind, open heart and with open ears. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions and wish to seek God.

Answer 3

"unconvincing" ! That brings a couple of sayings to mind. 1. There are none so blind as those that WILL NOT see. 2. He convinced AGAINST HIS WILL is of the same opinion still. Since there is no scientific proof that God either exists or does not, it's funny that some try to show off intelligence as evidence that He does not. How intelligent is that?

Answer 4

Good question - really.  Well presented.

The son is at fault for not asking the stranger for the family password.  lol

The problem with the atheist demand for proof, is that the entire basis of christianity is free agency - the ability to choose to believe or not.  Absolute proof negates that.  God requires a leap of faith - even a little one.  I find it to be equally interesting that those who take that leap of faith at one point or another are often presented with 'proof' evident only to themselves - thereby not capable of convincing anyone but themselves.

Answer 5

No, you own rebellion will be more than enough to do the job for you.

Answer 6

Looks like you're bear food, dude.

Answer 7

Rom 1:18   But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.[fn6]  

Rom 1:19   For the truth about God is known to them instinctively.[fn7] God has put this knowledge in their hearts.  

Rom 1:20   From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.  

Rom 1:21   Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused.  

Rom 1:22   Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.  

Rom 1:23   And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.  

Rom 1:24   So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  

Rom 1:25   Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.  

Rom 1:26   That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have s*x and instead indulged in s*x with each other.  

Rom 1:27   And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  

Rom 1:28   When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  

Rom 1:29   Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  

Rom 1:30   They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  

Rom 1:31   They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  

Rom 1:32   They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too

Turn from your denial of God and read the Holy Bible, pray for God to help you understand it. Seek him ernestly and you will find him.  

Answer 8

SATAn is busy tempting the entire world.....it isnt about what we want...God has already said that REjection of Him is permanent death...your choice...Ranting wont help. When you are willing ask Him into your heart...until then dont bellyache..

Answer 9

Condemning someone to h**l would not be nearly passive agressive enough, as you can see from some of the other answers.  

It's "your choice."  You're bringing it on yourself.  Thank goodness these people aren't rape counselors.

EDIT--To carry on your analogy, the only reason the son is in danger from a bear to begin with is because his father turned it loose in the woods.  Likewise, the only reason we're sinners is because God said so.  The only reason sin brings torment in h**l is that God said so.  But we're supposed to be thankful and awed that he provided a way out of the danger that he himself put us is by divine fiat.  Not good enough.  Looking at the chain of thought this way, I'm inclined to think that if there is a god,  it's Christopher Titus' father.

Answer 10

It is certainly true Satan has put out many false teachers claiming to have the truth.  It is also true God does not do personal appearances any longer.  Since providing the written Word of His in the Bible, what He wants and how He wants it is plainly stated.

How we can live the best life now and also gain eternal life on earth is explained there.

The best thing it does for us now is to explain how to tell who His people are.  What their beliefs must be to qualify.

It becomes our individual responsibility to find and share in His people.  Unfortunately, no one can do this for you.  We can only point the way.

He does provide a way for those who have died not knowing about Him through no fault of their own.  Acts 24:15 speaks of a resurrection for both righteous and "unrighteous" to earth.  These are obviously not willful wicked.  They are undeclared righteous by not having a chance to choose between God and Satan to choose whom they will follow.  That is an example of God's great love for us, not leaving those persons out in the cold  of death.

Now should you choose to ignore or even rage against it--Seinfeld says, "No soup for you!"  the choice is yours.

Answer 11

All the Christian can do is share the Gospel with you or any non-believer.

We can't make you believe or even listen for that matter, it appears as though you have your mind made up and are just looking for an argument no matter what proofs are given.

A persons sins condemn them to h**l - that person alone is responsible for those sins - no one else.

Answer 12

The Father has been trying to fetch you. You don't like the rules required to live at home with Him. Your disbelief isn't due to any faulty teaching of theirs. You are not ignorant or intellectually disabled, you understand what is required to become a Christian. Belief and repentance isn't something we can convince you of. All we are to do is tell you the good news. Once you yourself wish to desire the truth, it's up to YOU to approach the Father to ask Him to reveal the truth of His son to you.  

Answer 13

Wasn't Christ the first communist and that's why the capitalist, theocratic and imperialistic sections of society wanted Him crucified? Surely the message is more important than anything else. Don't attack Christ and His message, attack the people who misuse it.

Answer 14

All atheists being open to evidence is a poorly put together stereotype, as is all Christians are simple minded and close minded.  

I have dealt with self-proclaimed atheists who refused so many times to look at the evidence of God and Jesus.  Excuses like 'It's all creationist BS" or "Its just the work of religious nut-jobs and I wont waste my time reading it" are crutches to remain ignorant.  

Yes, Christians are out to spread the word, but your ignorance is no excuse.  

read "I dont have enough faith to be an atheist" by Frank Turek and Norman Geisler.  

You cannot blame your unbelief on me.  Many take atheism for granted, despite the numerous holes in it, yet they demand complete proof for a living God.  

Our sins are fair grounds for us to be condemned.  Jesus paid that penalty and has a gift waiting for you.  You have to accept that gift.  failure no to is ultimately your fault.  

I am open to email, if you wish to continue this.  

Answer 15

We all are seeking the path to our own happiness or joy.  

Some of us think that the only possibility of true joy is with a relationship with our Creator.  Through our human experience with love, we desire to know the love that our Creator must have for us (if He exists).  The path that seek our Creator has to begin with the assumption that He exists.  That assumption  is the definition of belief that He exists.

Others think that their happiness lies in living their lives independent of any authority telling them how to live.  The path to independence has to begin with the assumption that no higher authority exists.  That assumption  is the definition of belief that He doesn't exist.

Both paths begin with unprovable beliefs and so evidence is not a factor.  I don't think God punishes, He simply allows us to follow the path we've freely chosen.  If we want to be independent of Him, then He will eventually say "thy will be done".  

From  your question,  it seems you consider that there is some possibility that He exists.  If that is true, why would you not at least honestly seek Him?  That is all He asks of us, "seek and ye shall find".

Answer 16

Apparently since their god is perfect it is our fault for rejecting the lies and hypocrisy of Christianity. I can not fathom a deed so terrible it would require suffering through torture in h**l for all eternity. Nor can I imagine why a reward for being a good person and believing in god would reward you with a forced acceptance of these hypocritical rules and co-habitation of heaven with these Christians.