Is it worth while to use an odds calculator for playing limit texas hold'em?

Question

Someone once told me that if u use an odds calculator and only ever play when the odds are in your favour or you are getting good pot odds then over time you will win. Is this true?

Answer 1

I listen to holdem radio and a recent specialist limit holdem player estimated that pot odds were 80% over reading players 20%. the name will come to me. (here you go Limit Hold'em Hand by Hand: The Quick-and-Easy Way to Advanced Poker Play by Neil D. Myers (Lyle Stuart/Kensington; $19.95 with DVD))

You have to be able to put the player on a hand and understand your own chances of improving. Pot odds, and implied pot odds combined with position and type of table (in general) and the player(s) in the pot...

Does it help? Well the pros use it all the time, but in their heads, at low limits (where i assume we both play, though I prefer NL) you're probably better using your intuition.

Common thought is TAG or STAG is best, where you only play a list hands and are ready to put down any hand rather than bet against more aggression when you think he may have the best of it, but in Limit you can struggle to send messages with betting which is why "fancy" play such as check-raising are used.

I tend to know the basics, count the outs and divide these into 47 or 46 to get basic odds and then the bet you must make (now) not including money already commited to the pot and those bets you think likely to come plus any probable raises. If  the odds of improving are less than the pot odds then bet ie DOES 6-1 (4*2/47), pot odds 8BB-1BB. In reverse, you must make the odds not work for the players in the pot to make it worth calling, so raising and reraising take place, but at low levels most players get such good odds that they will rarely put down a hand and will have low starting requirements... basically they fish into the river...

Should you get one? Hmmmm, I use poker traker and review my hands and I am sometimes suprised by the odds I gave and got...(cos I am not very good), the most important thing to remember is a free card is infinate odds! I'd recommend that you put the chips down and step away from the table (or the mouse down and away from the keyboard), pick up a deck, pen and paper and go work a quick chart for yourself... odds on improving from High card to pair, pair to set, gut draw, double and single open straight and 3 or 4 cards to flush... in all circumstances. Your game will improve...but it is an away from poker training thing.

also, when folded work the odds people would be getting to call what they have (or you think they have) and the odds they are getting. this is great exercise for you and if you keep book, you DO keep book don't you, then you can note that some people will call dumb, donk odds with nothing or very little, when last bet into them for their betting value and your own positve value.... Hellmuth recommends putting hands on players, not guessing, but interpretting their bets and position to work out what they have. It keeps you busy and trains you up... again put in the book...

In a word then, no. Do it the hardway and find some leaks you can block.

will you make money in the long run if you do? Well probably not it becomes a prop you cannot live without and overrides your instinct (Korfmann says PLIB - Patience, Luck, Intuition and Balls, mainly patience. Oh and the F word a lot lol), when you flop a monster people wont give you action, big hands win small pots normally, it is marginal hands or made hands when the other guy has a chance of improving that make money. So be in the best position from the off, know your odds of improving and estimate what the player(s) have.

Sklansky says make the other player in the pot play his hand differently from how he would if he could see you own cards. Not bluff, but mislead.. if you got rockets you want to either land the pot now cos the blinds and anties make it worth while or build the pot, making it 4 to go pre flop with probably win even against KK but only the blinds and the limp ins, making it one from early or two from late would probably get you action and allow you to build a good pot. And this is where pot odds can mislead you, if you know someone plays c**p (LAG) as low as 9 2off and you land K10, it may be worth playing especially if you have position and him to yourself, say out of BB and you on the cut off. Pot odds would say no, but you need to fight his wild aggression with measured aggresion, ie, intuition, study him, read him, watch his patterns. If you miss the flop though, put it down and save some bets. hellmuth says you have to pay for your information, especially post flop. if he bets, raise, if he rereaises is he bluffing or is he likely to fold especially with a scare on board.

Over time, the best bet is to play tight but not too tight, use position to advantage (I play NL SnG and my two best seats are BB!! (already in on flat calling and aggressive) and Button followed by Cut Off and number 5 for some reason????????)

Play tight and you'll lose less, as opposed to win more and if you play less hands post flop you can learn more by watching other players... especially in SnG where the donks bleed to people willing to donk with them, narrowing the field and leaving you in the right game to play lesser valued hands more aggressively which a pot odds calculator would spit its batteries out at!!!

:o)

Just my rambling, there are many, many books that teach this kind of thing, and dedicated forums to ask more experienced players than me. Anyway. What the h**l are we doing on Yahoo when we could be playing hold em??

Answer 2

Let me address some points that are being made here.  First you're going to need to know the odds regardless of whether it's a bluff or not and in fact odds to win is very important in bluffing.  Second, you don't know what your opponent has (even though it's your job to try to figure it out as best you can) but you'll do better for sure knowing what your odds are.  Plus, some calculators will calculate the odds versus random hands and that's all the knowledge you can get here and it's something you need to make good decisions.

Having said that, my answer is that it depends on your experience level.  Good players don't use or need these although if you're not clear on how to calculate the odds on the fly then it's not a bad idea and can be a good learning tool.  It's especially helpful at short tables where you may not be familiar with what chances a given hand has to win.

My personal recommendation for these things is Holdem Hawk which will not only track the odds but it will track things like how often a player puts money in the pot and their aggression level which is some very useful and important things to know even if you're an experienced player.  You can even get the thing for free just for opening a new poker acct and making a deposit at one of their recommended sites.  If you want to check it out go to http://www.holdemhawk.com/?aid=1837b6c3&...

King Cobra Poker

http://kingcobrapoker.com

Answer 3

It's sort of true.  It's definitely important not to chase draws when you are not getting the proper pot odds.  If you keep doing that the math will catch up with you in the end.

So certainly if you only ever make the correct decisions mathematically you will have a fairly strong game.  But there is more to poker than the math.

Answer 4

Most players don't have time to use odds calculators when they are playing. Instead, it's more common to use 'outs' to compare against pot odds when you are deciding if it's a good idea to pay to see another card.

For example, say you are dealt Ah 6h (h=hearts) and the flop comes Kh 2d 3h. You have four cards to the best possible heart flush. What is the chance that the next card will be a heart?

Of course, you could estimate very roughly by assuming that a quarter of the remaining cards in the deck are hearts, so your odds of making the nut flush with the turn card are around 25%.

To be more specific, using outs, there are 4 hearts already out of the deck (that you're certain of, 2 in your hand, 2 on the board), leavng 10 'outs' in the deck.

To use outs more easily, you assume that each deck consists of 50 cards (a possible 4% error, no biggie), so 10 remaining hearts / 50 cards (or 20%) is roughly your odds to hit the flush with the next card.

So, find the number of cards in the deck that make your hand a winner, and just multiply by 2 to make a percentage estimate. Much faster than a calculator.

Naturally, it's more complicated (for example, there are also 3 aces left in the deck that might give you top pair), but that's the basic procedure. Poker isn't a science. Experience and study are required before you spend any money.

Answer 5

not really

because there is always that chance to get beat by the only card in the deck

and if you only play when the odds are in your favor..more than likely you wont be playing for a long time

you always have to take risk to win

some times bluffs work just as well

Answer 6

If you are using the odds calculator you would need to know what your opponent has to know the exact odds.

Using one where you can put villian on a range of hands and then comparing the odds vs. what the pot is laying you is much better.