Is my disappointment justified?

Question

In this thread of harassment Q&A, I saw a lot of answers indicating that if a woman fails to display sensible "street smarts" she is actually inviting harassment and/or rape.

I find this position to be rather demeaning to men. It suggests that men are childish in that they lack self control, and they seek to shift the blame for their own bad behavior onto someone else. I don't think so little of men. I truly believe they are more than just their lustful urges, and they CAN contol their behavior, even in the face of visual sexual stimuli.

So I get disappointed when men themselves take this postion that the women is solely responsible for preventing/inviting harassment. Do you think this is reasonable?

I'm not talking about the mentally deranged; I'm talking about normal men, so please stay focused. Thank you in advance.

Answer 1

Yes, you're right. Of COURSE men should be able to control themselves, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect that men should take your view in this as well.

That's logic.

However, logic does not make one any less raped, any less dead, in the face of someone not being reasonable. Like people who drive through an intersection without looking around because "I have the right-of-way." Well that's great. When you get T-boned one day your right-of-way will ensure that your full insurance benefits are paid out to your grieving family.

A woman SHOULD be able to walk down a street in the nastiest parts of the biggest cities without being touched, fondled or raped.

This doesn't mean I will be doing this, nor will I allow my daughter to when she hits those teen years. Should she be able to wear a halter top, a mini skirt and 6 inch stilletos walking through Alphabet City NYC? Sure. Will she? Not a snowballs chance in h**l.

It's a moot argument- idealism doesn't mean anything in the face of human cruelty.

Answer 2

I have very little self control its part of puberty thats why far more men die in accidents like then females.

Answer 3

If a straight man walks thru San Fransisco wearing nothing but a leather thong, should he get offended if a g*y man hits on him?.

Answer 4

Men often take the first step when it comes to initiating a sexual situation. They "hit on" girls by speaking to them. It has nothing to do with self control or being childish unless they refuse to stop when the girl makes it clear she is not interested. If every man was to have so much self control that he never spoke to a girl that he didn't already know, our society would be in a sad state. Another factor is how a man hits on a girl. There are respectful ways to do it and there are pathetically direspectful ways to do it. Intelligent men don't do it in a way that makes a girl uncomfortable, and they quickly back down if a girl shows a lack of interest. The men who actually harrass women are both fools and scum. The men who initiate conversations with women intelligently are actually just complimenting these women for being attractive and often risking their own pride in the process.

Answer 5

It is justified. Having been a victim of assault (I was wearing a huge T-shirt and short - it was August in TX), I think it's asinine for the woman to be blamed for getting raped for ANY reason. If the s*x was forced, it's not consent. It's rape - pure and simple.

That being said - I do NOT hold all men responsible for what happened to me. I am cautious and watch my back. I have stalked before too, so even sometimes a person being friendly with me can come off as me being considered a B***H; but I am just being careful. But I don't think EVERY MAN is out to get me!

I wish men did understand that we do like them, love them and care what they think of us.

HOWEVER - wearing something that is revealing isn't an invite. It's kind of like being at a strip club. Look, but don't touch!

Answer 6

Each one of us needs to be street smart in particular settings. Very few people advocate sexual harrassment or rape nor do we find it acceptable to for a woman to be harrassed for raped if she is wearing a particular outfit.

It's not that men are childish or immature per se.  It's that we are more like gorillas than you women are.  If I decided to live amongst a group of gorillas for a while, I would not expect them to keep their hands off my food. I would expect them to snatch any food I had away from me, just because they were hungry and they could.  I respect what a gorilla can do to me, so I don't bait or tempt the gorilla. You should treat men in the same light. We are stronger than you, and we want s*x more than you do, so have enough respect for us and our nature to NOT tempt or bait the gorilla within us.  Dress appropriately and walk in well-lit areas where there are plenty of other people around.

Answer 7

I agree with you.  

If they lack self-control as people claim, why can't they just m********e or go to a hooker? You don't see strip club customers raping the strippers. They go to the bathroom and m********e. A normal person has the conscience to not cause harm to another.

Sexual harrassment is about power and not s*x. If it was about sexual gratification, the guy could just forget about the girl that doesn't like him and go to his wife, gf, a hooker or jerk off.

EDIT: I feel sorry for Ksnake who thinks that men wants s*x more than women.Us women think about s*x on a regular basis too..Guys who say this usually are inexperienced or haven't seen through a "proper lady's" facade lol.

Answer 8

My opinion is that you're misunderstanding the concepts. Would you let your child walk to get groceries in crack town? Does that mean that you believe that all men can't control themselves if you wouldn't let your child walk through crack town unsupervised?

There are bad people out there. I think it's very reasonable to realize this. Life just isn't lollipops and cotton candy. It's not putting blame on the victim, but being safe doesn't come without a price in the real world.

If you're under this delusion, you might as well leave your keys in the car because everyone should control themselves to not steal a car, and ....

Answer 9

Rape or harassment is never justified. Period.

However, if you as a woman dress like a s**t, w***e etc and think you will be treated like an angel then you are insane. Not all men will harass you but some inevitably will. Doesn't make it right but it is reality. It's akin to walking out onto a highway and not expecting a car to hit you. It's like a woman trying to get into an all boys school and thinking you will be welcomed with open arms by everyone. Woman can prevent many of these incidents from happening if they would stop putting themselves in easy target situations.

Answer 10

I agree, of course, that men have more self control than that.

And ridiculous arguments linking attire to sexual assault ignore one very important fact:  rape isn't about s*x; it's about power.  If rape were actually about s*x, small children and the elderly would be immune.  And any Advocate can testify that they are not.

Answer 11

Nobody invites harassment or rape — EVER. It doesn't matter what they have done beforehand. They don't deserve it.

Answer 12

It's a sad reality that some men are actually dangerous, so it's always a good idea for a woman to be prudent and protect herself!  Regardless of whether she should have to, it's always better to protect yourself than be raped or murdered.  Being cautious and careful is the best defense, at least that is what I teach my daughters.  There is a huge difference between acknowledging reality and sanctioning violence.  You should realize the difference!

Answer 13

ok, there are a few men out there who are bad.

men take this position because men know that there are bad men out there.

the implication there is not that ALL men are like that, its just that on the street there are a lot of different types of men, and you should keep your wits about you.

Answer 14

That's why I keep talking about positive masculinism and redefining what is normal for males.  The idea that I have no self-control in the presence of a beautiful woman is rather degrading.  This belief that being masculine and virile means being overly- sexually agressive has gotta go.

Answer 15

I don't think they're saying women are 'inviting' harassment, just that women could be more careful. Which is basically what I said too, it's just common sense.

Oooh Eoghan, can I have some of 3 please? ;-)

Answer 16

Yes. Women should be aware of their surroundings, but men need to know that just because somone isn't "street smart" it doesn't mean they are inviting sexual assault. Whatever thread that is needs to be edited so people don't get confused.

Answer 17

The sad reality is that there is a covert acceptance of bad behavior with some men, especially in the Middle East.  They can accept a rape here or there (as long as it's not their family) because IT KEEPS WOMEN AFRAID.  If women are afraid, they are easier to control, and will think that they need men's protection so much, that they will give up some of their rights in order to get that protection.

Ex.  from post above of men accepting violence towards women..

"we are more like gorillas than you women are. If I decided to live amongst a group of gorillas for a while, I would not expect them to keep their hands off my food. I would expect them to snatch any food I had away from me, just because they were hungry and they could. I respect what a gorilla can do to me, so I don't bait or tempt the gorilla. You should treat men in the same light. We are stronger than you, and we want s*x more than you do, so have enough respect for us and our nature to NOT tempt or bait the gorilla within us. Dress appropriately and walk in well-lit areas where there are plenty of other people around"

Men are not gorillas.  He is doing exactly what you questioned, excusing men's behavior, and saying that men are somehow less human than women.  If men are gorillas, then they should all resign their political posts and let a human - woman - do the job.  I'm not saying that is what I think, But if men were like gorillas, they should not be able to hold positions of power, since they have no self-control.  Some men say that women shouldn't have power because of PMS, and that women can't control themselves, but PMS can be controlled by medication, and it only lasts a few days.  Gorilla is forever.

For an example of people in fear giving up their rights, you need look no further than the "Patriot Act" in the US.  After    9-11 they passed a law that gives the government the right to look at your E-mail and listen to your phone conversations without probable cause.  The law is still in effect.

     As for comparing this to theft, etc. there is a difference.  No one is going around saying, well some people are just thieves, and that's the way it is - accept it.  NO the theif is looked down upon by everyone.  No one is saying that is was your fault your house got broken into, because you have a very nice-looking house!  It's ridiculous.

Answer 18

Is he right to steal your car ? No. But why would you leave the car unlocked.

If you go in the wrong place at the wrong time dressed the wrong way you make yourself a target, no matter what you believe things should be like.

Of course the majority of men can control the behaviour, it is about the one who does not and rapes you. However its up to you how far you want to stack things in your favour, people dont stop driving cabrios because of car theft eithier.

Answer 19

Do you think the average man spends all his time walking down dark alleys?

Fact is whether you are male or female you have to be aware of your surroundings and avoid putting yourself in dangerous situations. This isn't a gender or equality issue it's a safety and common sense one. The average woman needs to be more aware because women may be targets due to their looks or due to the perception they are less able to defend themselves.

The fact is that women are not solely responsible for preventing or inviting harassment, there is always the element of chance as to which people she encounters ... normal nice people won't give her trouble, jerks will. However a woman is responsible for not putting herself in a position likely to result in trouble the same that way a man is. If you hang around seedy areas, walk around in dark places on your own and generally don't watch out for your own wellbeing then the average criminal isn't going to give a c**p as to whether attacking you gives his gender a bad name.

The fact is the battle of the sexes and gender equality doesn't mean c**p in a street fight. If you want to argue with a rapist in a dark alley about it, feel free, but I know that I will be telling the women I care about to be sensible and take responsibility for their own safety.

Answer 20

Like most things on the site, these people that claim it is all a woman's fault are idiots. Every man has fantasies, but most men keep their fantasies as fantasies until they get permission for a woman to make them real.

Answer 21

Normal men don't harass women like that because they have short skirts........unless it's like a game....

Answer 22

I think we need to start teaching people from a young age that it's not OK to force anyone else into sexual situations.

I remember advice that I read somewhere... "Even if you danced naked in front of him, he's not allowed to rape you."

This myth of the red-blooded male who can't control his urges is frequently used as an excuse, and is frankly ridiculous.  

Any man who says he can't control his sexual urges needs to seek psychological help as soon as possible.

Answer 23

A man who says he has no self control over this is lying.  It's not that hard to control if you want to.

Saying this is implying that men who walk on dark streets by themselves at night and get killed for it are at fault.