Is this ok for 2 male rats?

Question

66 X 45 X 69 cm cage?

here's a picture:

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.shanetodddirect.co.uk/FOP-BUDDY-DELUXE-RAT-CAGE-66X45X69CM_0_0_10RZB.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.shanetodddirect.co.uk/searchresults.aspx%3Fsearchterm%3Dfop&h=500&w=500&sz=168&hl=fr&start=31&um=1&tbnid=umW1Z70l-shJ7M:&tbnh=130&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drat%2Bcage%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfr%26sa%3DN

Answer 1

in my opinion , yeah! why not , it big enough , you shouldnt have problem with it....

Answer 2

Ignore Law L, that cage looks perfect and if the rat cage calculator said it can fit three than it should be fine for two. That calculator is pretty accurate actually, I got a cage that I thought was too small for my rats but the calculator said it would fit and it did!

Answer 3

http://www.cavyrescue.co.uk/rat-cages.sh...

There's a calculator at the bottom of the page.

That cage will hold up to three rats at the recommended space per rat (2 cubic feet).

Answer 4

Um, no.

Far too small.

They need a HUGE cage.

Male rats are about 30 cms long when fully grown, so that's not big enough at all.

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I didn't look, genius.

I went by HER measurements. A picture says nothing. In a picture, a hamster cage can look big enough for two rats.

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Trust me, it's not. I have to do exams in rubbish like this, just to keep my job. I work in a pet shop. I would not be allowed to sell two rats into a cage that size myself!

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Since this website shows pounds, I assume you're in the UK. These cages are a better size but a similar price-

http://www.petsathome.com/find/category-...

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I'm not in America, genius. I work in Pets At Home. And I never said I was an expert- I'm repeating what I was taught before my exams, and what I go by now when I sell rats. Simple as.

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Oh, of course. The disgusting way we have two per cage. The disgusting way they're cleaned out and handled everyday. The disgusting way we're educated in them.

Of course.

And of course every PAH is the same. One store is bad, hence they're all bad. Of couse.

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It's bigger, little ms. capitals. If you can't read that, I don't know what to say.

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Actually, we don't get our animals from ANY mills.

We get them from breeders which are vetted by the RSPCA and licensed- just as we are. We get monthly inspections of our animals, in the back and the shop floor.

Each store has a different breeder for each different group of animals. So we have one for all the hamsters, one for the rats, one for the rabbits and guinea pigs, one for chinchillas, degus and giant rabbits etc. etc. So no mills, genius. Don't speak of what you don't know. We have different breeders from the other PAH just ten miles down the road, for Christ's sake!

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No, they don't come with genetic historys, but so what? We've never had complients. We feed them our own brand food, plus unlimited hay for rabbits, guineas etc. and fresh vegetables every lunch time.

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...Maybe that's because I didn't get my information from a website?

...I mean seriously. Not EVERYTHING is online these days.

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Yes, I have seen our breeders. The ones with our small animals (hamsters etc.) and it's in a perfectly fine condition. It was clean, the cages were nicely laid out, there was seperate areas for females and males...

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To make money?

...'Sweetie', we sell our hamsters for £6 a pop. Yes, the breeder must be ROLLING in money right now!

And they don't need to keep genetic historys, since they don't breed animals with genetic quirks like gerbils who are prone to seizures or rats that are prone to tumours- they get put to sleep or kept as pets. And we don't keep them because we don't need to- we're totally against breeding so they're not going to breed a bad line if there is a genetic problem.

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I've been working there for two years now and never had complaints.

I've had two Syrian hamsters and a rabbit in the past; I now have a cat and two gerbils. I also rely on personal experience from work mates, especially one who was in love with rats and is now a manager with four rats at home and she educated me on them from HER personal experience.

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They don't get a profit! The most expensive animal there apart from the chinchillas which are hard to shift and the giant bunny which is equally hard is rabbits, at only £25 for one. How much of a cut do you think breeders get from that, exactly? Once you've taken away the cost of the cage, bedding, food, vet bills- YES, our animals see vets /before/ they come to us- and everything else, the breeder isn't exactly rolling in dough.

And yes, I am entitled to my opinion. This is the only cage that we sell that I would be happy sending people home with.

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I haven't had rats because I don't like them. They smell, and I don't like being pooed on. But that doesn't mean I don't know about them.

And I don't buy from breeders- our store does. And it isn't a 'big breeder'- they only breed for OUR store! No other store, not breeding privately.

Also, I'm against irresponsible breeding from people who don't know what they're doing. So people who come on here and ask 'WHAT DO I DO WHEN MY GUINEA PIG IS IN LABOUR?!11' are the people I'm against.

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You can keep whining about it all you like. They're RSPCA inspected and licensed. And the RSPCA wouldn't hesistate to take away a breeder's license if they felt the animals were suffering or in trouble. So you can keep saying THEY DON'T CONFORM when we don't get them from all old idiot on the street.

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I never said they were PAH licenses- they're RSPCA licenses. If you could read, you would have read that.

And the five freedoms?

You mean the thing stuck above the freezer in the warehouse, on the isolation door, on the quarinatene door, in the staff room, and the thing I have to repeat once a month?

...Naw, the five freedoms aren't practised at all! We just have them up for fun. Of course. Silly me. =)

It's practised, dear. I'll even taking a frigging photo if you don't believe me.

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I didn't say our shops were licensed by the RSPCA- they're inspected by a RSPCA representive. The BREEDERS are licensed by the council, just like us, and inspected by the RSPCA, just like us.

Answer 5

I think you mean the 14th picture.

And yes, it should be big enough for two large male rats, or three small male rats.

According to the Fancy Rats cage calculator, which calculates 2 cubic feet per rat, it is plenty big enough. I think Law L was looking at the wrong one, lol! :P

Edit: Sheesh. You are so touchy! Calm down, babe. Her measurements equal a cage that is plenty big enough for two rats.

Heh. You think you know everything just because you work in a pet shop? You have a terrible attitude in almost every question you answer. Let me ask you this, what pet shop do you work in exactly? Because I have worked in PetSmart and Petco and several privately owned shops. I also have friends who either work in or own other pet stores like Petland. Being a pet shop slave doesn't make you all-knowing, my friend. If you posted this cage on ANY of the big rat forums, such as Rats Rule or Fancy Rats or the numerous message lists, I would bet anything that most people would not see a problem with a cage that size for just two rats. Please show me a site that says 3 cubic feet of space per rat is not enough.

My rescue takes in 300+ rats every single year, along with dozens of other species of animals. I have had animals here that you have never even HEARD of. So don't sit there and pretend that a few years as a pet shop lackey suddenly makes you some kind of an expert. Because that's a joke.

Also, most people in the UK rat community urge rat owners to NOT shop at PAH because of the disgusting way they treat their rats.

You have a lot to learn. It's not necessarily the way the animals are treated once they reach the store (although, according to many other people I know who have worked there it's often quite bad) it's also how the animals are treated before they wind up in the store. Have you been to a PAH vendor/distribution center? Have you seen what kind of conditions the animals are kept in before they get shipped to you? Supporting PAH is supporting small animal mills. And yes, if one PAH store is bad, they are all bad. Money going to a good one supports them all. Let me ask you, do your animals come with pedigrees? Genetic histories? What do you feed them?

And seriously, the "exams" you have to take are even worse than the PetSmart ones. What a joke!

You also haven't shown me a single site that says rats need 3 cubic feet of space each. I'm waiting...

Lol. Have you ever been to these "breeders" facilities and seen what kind of conditions the animals are kept in? I think it's you who should stop speaking of what you don't know.

Sweety, part of the definition of a "bad breeder" is someone who breeds to make a profit and doesn't keep a proper genetic record of their stock. That describes the PAH millers pretty well.

Yep. You're absolutely right. Not everything is online, including a significant amount of experience, common sense, and respect, all of which you are lacking. Seriously, how long have you been working with small animals? And how many of those animals do you have experience with at home instead of in a pet store environment?

Well, if your breeder is actually taking proper care of their animals, then kudos to them, but if they are selling for profit to a pet shop they still qualify as a bad breeder.

And seriously, you're definitely entitled to your opinion, but none of the widely recognized rat authorities agree with you that rat cages need to be so large. Bigger is always better, but I think it's pretty silly of you to make a big deal out of a cage being too small when it's only a little bit smaller than the one you posted yourself. How childish.

You're "totally against breeding" but you buy animals from a large-scale breeder? Um. Okay honey.

Like I said, you really don't have even a fraction of the experience you should to be making claims with that kind of finality. You can't even back yourself up with anything better than "a few of my coworkers have rats and this is what they told me". You haven't even had pet rats yourself! Sheesh.

Babe. They wouldn't be breeding that way if they didn't make money off of it. These breeders don't even come close to meeting the ethics guidelines of any small animal society or commission out there.

http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/information/...

Well, I've spent too much of my time talking to deaf ears. I suggest you actually get out there and so some reading in the pet community instead of relying on just what you learned at a  chain pet store.

Rat Luva, that cage is plenty big enough. If you can afford something bigger, that would be even better, but your rats aren't going to suffer in it or anything. Good luck, and feel free to IM/email me if you need anything.

Oh, and according to a former PAH manager I know, the RSPCA doesn't even issue licenses except for food products. It's local councils that issue pet shop licenses. But the criteria they go on is pretty c**p anyways, such as the size cages for animals (always too small) and that kind of idiocy. Even the RSPCA "5 freedoms" act doesn't apply to pet shops. lol If that were true, you'd think it would be on the website or something.

Please point out where I said they were PAH licenses? Yes, please send me some proof that PAH has RSPCA licenses, because I'm talking to several people right now who work at PAH and they're all laughing.

I like how you don't have any kind of information to back yourself up except for "because I said so". lol At least you're good for entertainment. But at least now I know why you post so much false information to people here.