Is this something you'd support (pro-choicers mostly)?

Question

I see a lot of people on here saying things like "A man should discuss the issue of pregnancy with his wife/girlfriend before s*x if he doesn't want her to have an abortion of his child/fetus/etc."

Let's turn the tables for a minute here. Suppose they discuss the issue and the man tells his wife/girlfriend flat-out "I do not want a kid, so if you get pregnant I will refuse to pay child support. You can have an abortion if you don't want to deal with it, but I'm not getting involved."

Should he be able to get out of it like that if a woman can get out of parenthood with abortion? In other words, should she be able to get child support money out of him anyway if he explicitly states he doesn't want to have a kid himself?

Once again, I must state that I'm against abortion in most cases anyway, and also men walking out on their kids, but I was interested in what people who do support the choice of abortion thinks about this.

Disclaimer: This question is not meant to offend, be sexist in any way, try to further The Patriarchy or any Great Feminist Conspiracies, or to try to keep anyone oppressed. Thank you for your understanding, and please read the question thoroughly before answering and accusing me of a lot of things I'm not guilty of.

Answer 1

too long -_-

Answer 2

The problem is that even if he has that disclaimer ("I will not pay child support") he is still committing the act of child making. It would be like showing up to a heist with some friends saying "I am going to do this, but I am not going to go to get caught" If you don't want to have a child, then don't do the act of conceiving one. I don't believe in Abortion. But I call myself "pro-choice" I just believe the choice comes earlier then most. You have the choice to have s*x, which can lead to a baby, or you have the choice not to. It shouldn't be a matter of whether or not you have the choice to end the child's life!

Answer 3

Not just no but HE** no!! If you're going to do the crime (so to speak) you need to do the time (so to speak) Don't take either literally s*x isn't crime but if you get the girl pregnant and she has to go through with the pregnancy then it is your responsibility as well, after all you got her there. TALKING isn't good enough. If you don't want to get her pregnant use protection or practice abstinence. (Or learn what it means). Becoming a parents requires the responsibility of 2 parents not just one and it shouldn't rely on just one of their shoulders. If you get her pregnant then you need to at least be by her and support her through the pregnancy if you aren't going to be there afterwards. I am totally against abortion. I believe it is just like killing someone. There are other people out there that cannot have babies that want one. I went through with a pregnancy and put a baby up for adoption because I couldn't support it the way that it needed to be supported, although it was a hard decision for me, it was the best thing for the child and the new parents and I wasn't killing a human life. It made 3 people plus the parents other kids. The father didn't have to support the child and I didn't kill it. This is something you and the mother of the child can think about....and if you don't want it and she doesn't want it, then this is something that the two of you need to talk about. Hard decision but it is the best thing for the child and it will be good for some "potential" parents. Just please don't kill a human lifeform.

Answer 4

Depends if he got a contract that says that or not.

Otherwise he could simply state that after the fact.

If he has a contract that states that, obviously no.

I like your disclaimer :P

One thing that annoys me is that in today's society whether or not i get to be a dad is completely in the hands of someone else. I dont like that idea.

I'm not for less responsibilities for men, i'm for more rights for us, and if that means women have to be a little more careful about birth control, so. be. it.

Answer 5

No, he shouldn't be able to get out of it. Because one the child's born, it's his responsibility to take care of it. I'm pro-choice, and abortion is different than a man paying child support. If a man fathers a child, he can't punish the child because he's upset that he woman got pregnant. If the woman doesn't have an abortion, and has the child, he has to pay.

It may be unfair to the man, but it's also unfair to the child for the father not to pay child support.

Answer 6

Yes she should be able to get child support because the unprotected s*x was a decision between both parties I guess in my opinion it is still both parties responsibility,  Yes a woman can get out by abortion but because of a woman's bond from the start this is easier said than done, this should also be the case in any feeling father I just don't see how once that child is born the father could not want to see or help support the child.  this could all be avoided if both were responsible before the conception takes place, believe me I am not perfect and I did myself have a child at 19 and no the father is not around and yes he did say he would support and be there, but obviously things change I am just lucky to have found a great guy who is not like this man you are referring to and has adopted and is supporting my son and our daughter, my lovely husband.  just shows you if girls started thinking more highly of them selves and just told these men the minute something like this was spoken that they were gong to find someone worth having s*x with than maybe there would be less unwanted children therefor less of these men in the world.

Answer 7

Well, he can certainly waive his rights in court, though I don't know why he'd want to.  I think that, in cases where the woman, say, puts a hole in the condom or something, the guy should be able to waive his rights.  Any other case, he has control.  I don't want to hear, "I thought she was on the Pill!!"  That's what condoms were made for.

EDIT: Drummer

"But if like you said, he sits down and clearly states "I do not want a kid, so if you get pregnant I will refuse to pay child support. You can have an abortion if you don't want to deal with it, but I'm not getting involved.""

Ummm...did she get pregnant on her own?  Don't men have control over whether they want a kid or not?  That's what condoms or vasectomies are for.  Let's not pin the responsibility of birth control on women.

Answer 8

i think that if a man does not want to have a child then he should not be having unprotected s*x in the first place ... i think that it would then be up to the woman to decide if she wants to have the abortion or not, and if not he has no choice but to pay... as long as he is employed they will take it out of his check he can try and fight it but you can have blood work done and the state will get the money from him.... he should really think about that before he just starts to hump without caution... i don't think that he should be able to get out of it like that because he is an adult and he made the decision to have s*x knowing that there is that possibility of pregnancy...  

Answer 9

if they guy doesnt want and the girl does then she should have to pay for it, simple

Answer 10

I think that the man should still have to pay, he could have taken precautions as well to ensure that his partner does not conceive. He can have a vasectomy if its a long term relationship or wear condoms. And if he is concerned with the woman punching holes in it, he should safeguard against that as well. I am pro choice. But the man also has to realize that no form of birth control is 100% effective, so as long as he is having s*x, protected or not, there is a chance that a pregnancy can occur. In addition "sins of the parents" as so many people like to say,are not the fault of the child. Whether or not the child is wanted doesn't change the fact that it has to eat and be taken care of. Its better that the man take care of his child, than my tax dollars taking care of these children.

Answer 11

I'm against abortion too and i believe that no he should pay child support and yes he should get involved... but I think that this should be handled in court once the baby is either born or about to be.

Answer 12

Legally, a man cannot refuse to pay child support just because he told his partner he does not want kids, and does not plan to support them. How do you suggest we legally enforce this spoken agreement? It's hearsay. Unless you can find a way to draw up a written agreement, claiming that you told your partner that you do not plan on paying child support, and therefore you do not have to, will not hold up in court. I would suggest supplying your own birth control, such as condoms if you absolutely refuse to financially support an unwanted child.  

Women who "oopsies" men, and then fight to have them pay child support when they want nothing to do with the child, are nothing but scum. But realistically, you cannot deny born children financial support just because the man wanted to opt out of parenthood. The ramifications of a woman "opting out" of parenthood by choosing to abort, and a man "opting out" of parenthood by denying child support are totally different from each other. If a woman chooses to "opt out" of parenthood by abortion, once the fetus is aborted, that is it. All is said and done. But guess who would often pick up the tab of a man "opting out" of parenthood? The taxpayers, especially if this man "opts out" quite frequently.

Answer 13

Sure why not. A woman is not an idiot she can turn him down if he's so irresponsible. In fact it even better this way, then she can see he's a douche up front.

Answer 14

I agree.

Makes sense.

Rational and logical.

But, isn't that a problem actually?

Answer 15

It is the woman's body and therefore her choice on what she does with it, not the mans.  If the man does not want to pay child support then it is too bad.  The law is on the females side in this case and the guy owes the child support.  In other words the government will take his money (if he has a job that is) and put it in your pocket.  

Answer 16

What you propose is basically pregnancy-insurance.  I think this should be allowed if he agrees to pay for contraception so she doesn't get pregnant, or an abortion if she does.  If the woman wants to have children, she should find a boyfriend who wants children.

But why not just get a vasectomy?

Answer 17

Hi I hope you don't mind me answering this question. It's a good question. and it's something It hits close to home with me. please forgive me telling you all the same story over and over but I just feel I need to tell it again. so forgive me.

Ok I did not set out to be a mom. I had s*x one time at a weak point in my life. you can read about it in my other answers about single moms. I know this is a question about abortion but I was faced with this choice also. so I know about this. I was weak and did something stupid one time. I got pregnant. I told the guy he told me he would pay for an abortion. If i did not have one he would NOT pay child support or see the kid. I thought about it for a minute and said NO i would NOT have an abortion. that was MY choice.

Well he left and did NOT pay any child support and I NEVER asked for any. he told me he wanted NOTHING to do with me or OUR baby. so I told him if he wanted to he could see his child anytime he wanted. he made HIS choice he left and never looked back. I respect him for telling me the truth. even if I did not set out to trap him I made an HONEST mistake one time. and I am raising her on my own NO child support. NO welfare. NO family support. alone.

If a Man tells you he does not want kids you sould not force him to pay support now abortion I think BOTH should have say. but I don't know how to answer this I really don't I know i didn't have one. but I don't know what other people face so I don't know how to answer it. but what I do know BOTH parents should have say. and if he wants out then let him go. how can it help your child by making someone stay when he does not want to be there.

OK sorry this is so long. and I am sorry I really didn't answer your question. but I just wanted some to know that a lot of times mistake happen. to BOTH men & women but both should be able to opt out if they want. God Bless

EDIT: I would like to add I have known this man for a long time. he was older then I am and we dated a few times and we only had s*x ONE time. but as you know one time is all it takes. I wanted to stop all the nasty emails asking me for details. so here you go.

Answer 18

That was quite a disclaimer! lol I guess it's a good idea on a public forum such as this though...

Obviously people should be using condoms when sleeping with someone they are not in a committed relationship with for safety's sake.

Say, if the condom breaks or a condom is not used then short of a Pre-sexual Contractual Agreement signed by both parties and notorized, you men are subject to the woman's choice.

Answer 19

You make a good point. However, I think that a man who makes a statement like that and doesn't back it up by taking utmost care of the birth control issue, no longer gets to choose not to be a father if the woman gets knocked up.

Answer 20

There's responsibility on both sides, really.

A man can refuse to support his child certainly (many do, even after years of marriage), BUT he also has to recognize the fact that by laying down with the woman in question, he helped create the child - the responsibility is partially his whether he admits it or not.  He is the daddy by virtue of his DNA and his actions, rather than his words.

Also - no method of birth control - aside from saying "NO!", is perfect.  A woman has to accept the risk that she could become pregnant regardless of her method of birth control.  The man has to accept that risk as well - and it's an area that he should be contributing to - by using a condom.  Unless she was raped and there is legal documentation to back that up, she has to accept her part in the creation of a child.

There are no easy answers to this one.

A man shouldn't just turn a blind eye to his child because he can.  And no woman should have an abortion, just because she can.  It's something that requires some serious consideration before any decision is made.  If she is prepared to go forward with the pregnancy, great...but if not and she chooses to have an abortion, it's a personal choice, and one that she has to live with.  There are emotional considerations as well...it's very complicated.

Answer 21

I believe in abortion too but If the guy does not want a kid than why take the risk of having unprotected s*x with her anyway? Why does a women get to suffer consiously about what she did? the pain she had when a vacumm was sucking the brains of what couldve been her baby?

Answer 22

i'd have my g/f sign a disclaimer before we had s*x and send a copy to my lawyer

Answer 23

I'm one of the peopel that say couples should talk about it first. It is a huge decision to make so it makes sense for people to talk about it.

Yes I think that proposition is fair, as long as people lay their cards on the table to begin with and you agree on the matter it is fair.

my husband and I are both pro choice so we have always agreed on the subject.

Answer 24

Hmm, this is a great point

is it really fair that a woman can end a pregnancy if she does not want the child

but the father cant?

I mean, if its a typical oops and the dad is a deadbeat that doesnt count.

But if like you said, he sits down and clearly states "I do not want a kid, so if you get pregnant I will refuse to pay child support. You can have an abortion if you don't want to deal with it, but I'm not getting involved."

I do not think he should have to pay child support. Assuming the above comment was documented, and they used protection...

but, the child would be the one suffering, he or she would need to eat, have clothes, and be in school

so if it takes the fathers financial contribution to make that happen, then so be it

I am pro-choice... but it cant JUST be the woman's choice, it takes two to make a baby

Answer 25

Sure, I just don't think he should be able to do it if he's signed the birth certificate already because I don't think parents should just abandon their children after they're born and have made a commitment to take care of them.  

Answer 26

hmmmm.

I am not goingto give my stock mysogonistic speal.

this is an interesting concept and perhaps a notarized contract would be necissary.

I too am against abortion and deadbeat dads ( as well as feminazis )

the best option would be that if the father wants a kid and the mother does not then she is forced to go through with the pregnancy and give him the child ( or share custody if she changes her mind after birthing the child )

maybe if the man does NOT want an abortion and the woman gets one she has to pay him NONchild support for the next 18 years?

its a tough question but the current system of the woman having 100% choice in having or not having an abortion and the man having 0 say in child support or abortion issues is wrong.

Answer 27

rofl, then if that woman wanted kids and wanted him to help support their kids, then she would be smart not to have s*x with him, right?  At least, that is what I hope. Some women do it anyway to try and hold the man.  

Answer 28

The best idea I have heard came from one of the feminists on this forum that a man should have the right to opt out of fatherhood as long as the woman has the right to opt out of motherhood through abortion.  Once that point in the pregnancy has passed, neither has a choice as long as the woman keeps the baby.  She gives it up for adoption, he's out of the support loop.

It SHOULDN'T be as easy as you said.  Something else SHOULD be done.

Answer 29

I'm for abortion, but I think that most people will agree with me when I say that no man should ever be able to walk out on a responsibility like that, its irresponsible and just plain unfair. It only happened because of him, he should stay with the wife/girlfriend/etc. and help solve the issue weather that's having the kid, or getting abortion.

Answer 30

The truth of the matter is....

Oopps, saw something shiney, gotta go.

Answer 31

Both parents can agree before hand that they don't want a child,

But birth control isn't 100% safe.

So if she does become pregnant, and does decide to have the baby,

Then yes, he is responsible to pay child support.

If he didn't want to pay it, he shouldn't have had s*x.