JW's have you studied Romans 13:1-7 versus WTS teaching?

Question

Look at the scripture pointed out and answer if you have ever compared inspired scripture to the uninspired teaching of the WTS. How do you compare it?

1 Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God

2 Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.

3 For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it;

4 for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad.

5 There is therefore compelling reason for YOU people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of [YOUR] conscience.

6 For that is why YOU are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose.

7 Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear; to him who [calls for] honor, such honor.

Three times Paul says that all human governments exist because God put them in power. He said it in three different ways in Greek, to drive the point home:

1) Governing authorities are υπο θεου, "from God" (verse 1)

2) Governing authorities are υπο θεου τεταγμεναι, "established by God" (verse 1, τεταγμεναι is the perfect passive participle form of τασσω)

3) Governing authorities are τη του θεου διαταγη, "the ordinance of God" (verse 2, διαταγη is a noun derived from διατασσω

Three times Paul says that all human governments are God's minister, God's servant -- governments work directly for God. He used two different nouns for this in Greek, to drive the point home:

1) διακονος "minister" (singular, twice in verse 4)

2) λειτουργοι "servants" (plural of λειτουργος, verse 6)

Here are my questions.

1) What exactly does Paul mean by saying three times in three different ways that all human governments are set up, established, put into place, by God?

2) How can this be reconciled with the Watchtower Society's dogma that all human governments have their origin in man's rebellion against God's sovereignty starting back in Eden?

3) What exactly does Paul mean by saying three times in two different ways that all human governments are God's minister, are God's servants, that they all work for God?

4) How can this be reconciled with the Watchtower Society's dogma that all human governments are under Satan's control, and thus work for Satan, not for God?

Answer 1

First I have read several of your questions aimed at JW's, and it may help to first understand what JW's teach directly, instead of making indirect implications about our Bible based beliefs.  

But to answer your question:  

The scripture you quoted (Romans 13:1-7) does teach that we should be honest law-abiding citizens and be 'in subjection' to the superior authorities, but that is RELATIVE subjection, when their laws oppose God's laws, we obey God first.

Three scripture show CLEARLY what the Bible stance is on human rulerships.

1) Acts 5:29 “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”

If you notice the context of the text, the apostles were disobeying the 'earthly rulers' of that time, men of high authority, the Sanhedrin.  But they did so correctly, because they were to FIRST obey God and his Son's commision to preach the good news. (Matthew 28:19,20)  So again this is RELATIVE subjection.

2) Luke 4:5-8 (one of my favorite Bible text by the way).  "So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time;  and the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it.  You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.”  In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”  

Notice that Satan tempted Jesus with "ALL THE KINGDOMS" and its "AUTHORITY".  Now could I sell you your OWN car?  No! Why not?, because you can't sell something that doesn't BELONG to you.  Likewise, Satan could offer these things as a temptation to Jesus, because they BELONG to him.  Satan is the originator of ALL earthly governments apart from God.  If this was not the case, his temptation would have been meaningless to Jesus, and to us.

3) Daniel 2:44 44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.  

Once again, this text refers to 'earthly kingdoms', and notice that they 'ALL' will be brought to ruin.  Now if these governments were put into place  by God, and were in harmony with his will.....WHY would there be a need to destroy ALL of them?  They are being destroyed because they are NOT in harmony with God's will, and furthermore they oppose by pridefully claiming territories and lands as there possesions, by inciting their people to patriotism and war, and by neglecting their own subjects.  Jeremiah 10:23 shows CLEARLY that man is NOT fit to rule his own self, and history has proven this time and time again.  That is why ALL man made rulerships will be cut off from the earth, and they will be replaced by God's rule.  This is what the Bible teaches, therefore this is what Jehovah's people believe and life for.

Have a nice day.  

Answer 2

When Jehovah confused mankind’s languages to thwart the building of the Tower of Babel, Jehovah, in effect, created the basis for the various national groups that have since evolved. Furthermore, Paul stated at Romans 13:1 that “the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.” So, it is only by God’s authority that the present ordering of nations exists.

When the Devil was tempting Jesus by offering him all of the kingdoms of the earth, even he admitted that the glory and authority of those kingdoms had been delivered to him by God's grant.

So, ever since mankind was expelled from Eden, God has allowed for various authorities to exist and exercise power to serve as an alternative to tribalism, anarchy or absolutism, until such time as Jehovah hands over the kingdom to Christ. Since “there is no authority except by God,” it is as if the nations were "planted" by God in the sense that they only exist by his permission and ultimately they serve his purpose.

On numerous occasions in the past, God has intervened in the affairs of nations in order to accomplish his will with respects to his people. For example, because of Jehovah's intervention, Joseph, a lowly shepherd son of Jacob, was elevated to the high office of Prime Minister of all of Egypt. Daniel was likewise elevated from the status of a captive to the third ranking ruler of the Babylonian Empire.

Similarly, although similarly enslaved, Esther became the queen of the vast Persian Empire. As the Proverb says: “A king's heart is as streams of water in the hand of Jehovah. Everywhere he delights to, he turns it.” So, we may be sure that Jehovah has used the nations in order to facilitate his own purpose. That's why Paul asked the brothers of Christ to pray “concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a quiet and calm life with full godly devotion and seriousness.”

The downfall of the leading nation of the world will signal the end of the tree of Egypt.

“And it occurred further that in the eleventh year, in the third month, on the first day of the month, the word of Jehovah occurred to me, saying:  ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚€Â˜Son of man, say to Pharaoh the king of Egypt and to his crowd, ‘Whom have you come to resemble in your greatness? Look! An Assyrian, a cedar in Lebanon, pretty in bough, with a woody thicket offering shadow, and high in stature, so that among the clouds its treetop proved to be. Waters were what made it get big; the watery deep caused it to grow high. With its streams it was going all around its planting place; and its channels it sent forth to all the trees of the field. That is why it grew higher in its stature than all the other trees of the field.’

Answer 3

Nice to see you too Green.

Where have  you read that the WTS was inspired by God?- do tell.

2) Your Question:..What exactly does Paul mean by saying three times in three different ways that ALL human governments are set up, established, put into place, by God?

Human Govts set Up by God? thats a stretch- God allows them to exist.

  Are you really saying that the n**i Regime was Set Up by God?.. How about the The Khmer Rouge from 1975 until 1979 when Cambodia was ruled by the government of Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge party. The period saw the death of approximately 1.7 million Cambodians through the combined result of political executions, starvation, and forced labor. Invasion by neighbor and former ally Vietnam led to the Khmer Rouge's downfall, left Cambodia under Vietnamese occupation for a decade and sparked the Third Indochina War in 1978.How about Zimbabwe and the killing of the whites there- God set up that Govt too? You make God out to be a Freak, a  mentally deranged Spirit entity by your understanding of scripture.

Green are you Seriously saying GOD established them- along with Hitler and his Mass Killings of Millions of Jews as well as others? You misunderstand Scripture. Bigtime.

Answer 4

When human governments ACT IN HARMONY with God’s will, then it can be said that human governments are ACTING as God’s ministers.

Hitler’s government DID NOT ACT according to God’s will.

There is no authority except by God, the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God

Notice, it says “the existing authorities STAND PLACED in their relative positions by God”. After the original sin, God ALLOWED men to establish human governments. There are forms of governments that BAN CHRISTIANITY and belief in God of the Bible. So you’re saying God setup those governments?  I don’t think so. Notice, the Bible didn’t say “GOD setup/placed all existing authorities”. God ALLOWED men to create these human governments, and He made some arrangements so that these forms of authorities will act as MINISTERS of God. But unfortunately, wicked men DO NOT act as ministers of God, and do not follow God’s arrangements for these governments.

Answer 5

You are a seminary student