Jews Jews Jews? question for Jews?

Question

Was the Torah lost in 160 A.D?

Muslims claim that it was lost and re written by men so it means that it changed, is this true? was there not even one copy left to copy from?

The Quran was memorized for years before it was written down so I guess I have the same claim to the Muslims but let's put that aside for a second because it doesn't matter.

Just tell me if it was written again or not and if it was then how do you know there are no mistakes? who remembered it all?

Answer 1

The Quran was not put together by the length of the verse, how come the last verse in the Quran isn't the shortest?

And the Quran was written as soon as it was revealed to Prophet Mohammad, it was collected after his death. There is one copy of the Quran that  has not changed for 15 centuries, but how many versions of the Torah or the Gospel are there? The fact is, that after Prophet Moses died, and many of the good sons of Israel died, some Jews changed stuff in their books, that's why there is all the contradiction. There are many right stuff in the Torah, but there are stuff that were just changed by the hands of humans.

Answer 2

No the Torah was not lost in 160CE

Any scribe (sofer) trained and entrusted with writing a Torah took very seriously the vows not to alter even the tiniest portion of a Torah scroll. That is still the case.

The Hebrew Bible canon closed to new books since the time of Ezra/ Nehemiah (around 423 BCE) The accuracy of the words we see now in the Hebrew Bible was confirmed with the findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls where fragments of each book except the book of Esther (the last book to be included in the canon) match quite well with the Tanakh's Jews use today.

The majority of the Dead Sea scrolls were written in the Hebrew Language (approximately 90-95%) with Assyrian Block script. From this majority there are a few cases in which the scribes used Paleo-Hebrew (see for example 4QPaleoExodus).

Modern Hebrew is different from the ancient Paleo Hebrew, but the Hebrew of 2000 years ago is closer to modern Hebrew than the English of the 1700’s is to the English we speak today.

There was a council of rabbis and scribes at Jamnia in 90 CE who worked hard to rid the Tanakh of the Hellenized versions of scripture that were being spread. Christian apologist scholars often try to claim that this was when the Jewish Bible's canon was FORMED in response to Christianity, but that ignores that their very own writings refer to it as a formed work already. Some of the texts that Judaism never considered as a part of Jewish scripture were early apologetic attempts to tie in Christian dogma to the Tanakh. Others show pre-Christian attempts to Hellenize Judaism. These texts known as Pseudepigrapha were largely written between 200 BCE and 100 CE and included great amounts of Greek philosophy.

Quran came around a long time later. Because the Qur'an claims to be the last and complete Word of God and it differs in the telling of stories from both the Tanakh and the Christian Bible, the rationale from the Quran is that the other two were corrupted.  

Answer 3

read this addition

the original Taurat has been modified for writers/statesman' desires. 1 point they attempted to create a situation between Ismail & Is'haq alayhi salaam (peace be upon them), sons of Ibrahim alayhi salaam. True story, Ismail as a baby with his mom Hajir was told by Allah, our 1Creator, Ibrahim's 1Lord, to send them away, before Is'haq was born & a nation would develop from Ibrahim & Ismail & Is'haq

check this:

example according to Gen. 16:16 Abraham alayhi salaam (peace be upon him) was 86 years old when Ishmael was born. And according to Gen. 21:5 Abraham was one hundred years old when Isaac alayhi salaam was born. It follows that Ishmael was already fourteen years old when his younger brother Isaac was born. According to Gen. 21:8-19 the incident took place after Isaac was weaned. Biblical scholars tell us the child was probably weaned at about the age of three. Thus, it follows that when Hagar and Ishmael alayhi salaam were taken away Ishmael was a full-grown teenager, seventeen years old. However, the profile of Ishmael in Gen 21:14-19 is a small baby and not a full-grown teenager. Why?

Genesis 21:14-21

14 Early next morning Abraham took some food and a full water-skin and gave them to Hagar. He set the child on her shoulder and sent her away, and she wandered about in the wilderness of Beersheba. 15 When the water in the skin was finished, she thrust the child under a bush, 16 then went and sat down some way off, about a bowshot distant. How can I watch the child die? she said, and sat there, weeping bitterly. 17 God heard the child crying, and the angel of God called from heaven to Hagar, What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid: God has heard the child crying where you laid him. 18 Go, lift the child and hold him in your arms, because I shall make of him a great nation. 19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well full of water; she went to it, filled the water-skin, and gave the child a drink. 20 God was with the child as he grew up.

1. the original Hebrew for Gen. 21:14 is " and put the bread and water on her shoulder AND the boy." Anyone fluent in Hebrew can confirm this.

How would a mother carry a seventeen-year-old teenager on her shoulder? Certainly he was probably strong enough to carry his mother. Ishmael must have been a baby!

Second, in Gen 21:15 we are told that Hagar put the child under one of the bushes. Ishmael must have been a baby and not a teenager!

Third, in Gen 21:16 we are told that Hagar sat away so she did not have to see the child die before her eyes. Is this the profile of a husky seventeen-year-old teenager who probably was capable of being worried about his mother dying before his eyes? Or is it obviously a profile of a small helpless baby? Ishmael must have been a baby and not a teenager

read the Quran http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/

Alhamdulillah (All Praises be to Allah)

edit: no because the wrong-doers/writers claimed when Is'haq alayhi salaam was born, older brother Ismael alayhi salaam, mocked baby Is'haq. therefore mothe Sara told nabi (prophet) Ibrahim alayhi salam "she didnt want a slave-women's son(Ismail) sharing inheritance, Is'haq, therefore she wanted them sent away, when Ismail was sent away 17 years old.

it was an attempt to add details to why Ismail left his father Ibrahim, therefore calling him wicked. but our 1Creator loved him.

the Angels of God told Hagar to name him Ishmael (Gen 16:11), which means God Hears. Clearly, this is a divine child as God is intervening and sending angels down to name him; this is a clear indication that the child is important.

Answer 4

answer: No, it wasn't lost.  That's why the Torah was written down, so it wouldn't be lost.

That's not the only thing the Quran has wrong.  It's part of their claim to justify their religion because Islams states Judaism and Christianity has it wrong.  Since the Tanakh is copied letter by letter carefully, they had to come up with something to show Judaism went off track.

It's a bogus claim

# # #

As evidenced by Slo T's rantings - it's a bogus claim.  You cannot cite the Koran which was written thousands of years after the Tanakh to discredit the Tanakh.  

That would be like citing Harry Potter to show how Islam is ridiculous.

Answer 5

The Dead Sea scrolls can be used to prove this is not true.  They mirror the current Torah almost exactly.

The Quran changes stories in the Jewish Tanach, some substantially, so there's a need to find a way to claim it's corrupted, since they're religion is based on that idea.  I guess they didn't know it how carefully it was copied when they came up with this.

Answer 6

The Torah was written, the Talmud is a oral tradition. The quran was written on leafs then put together by length of the "verse", so there was no logic with the quran to begin with. Sorry.

Answer 7

simply think about this ...

How could the bible possibly be lost today? There are so many copies circulating, you would have to lose ALL of them. Certainly, there were much less copies of the Torah at the time but how in the world would they ALL be lost? It's just not possible.

I'm not Jewish, hope it's ok that I answered anyway.