Just what IS a climatologist? What degree do they have?

Question

I always hear that GW advocates only take the word of climatologists-- weather forecasters, geologists, etc etc opinions don't count.

Here are the resumes-- and educational background for several "climatologists".

http://www.sercc.com/personnel

Until VERY recently universities did not teach "climate" as a stand-alone degree-------- so basically right now most folks claiming to be climatologists actually have degrees in other types of Earth sciences.

Answer 1

I would say anybody that has published in a peer reviewed climatology journal could be called a climatologist.  Here are some examples:

# ACCP notes : the newsletter of the Atlantic Climate Change Program (1995 - 1998) Open access GPO

# RSSAgricultural and Forest Meteorology (2/1/1984 - ) Elsevier

# RSSAtmospheric Chemistry and Physics (2001 - ) Open access DOAJ

# RSSAtmospheric Chemistry and Physics Discussions (1/1/2001 - ) Open access

# Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics Discussions (2001 - ) Open access DOAJ

# Atmospheric environment (1/1/1967 - 12/31/1989) Elsevier

# RSSAtmospheric Environment (Oxford, England : 1994) (1/1/1994 - ) Elsevier

# Atmospheric environment. Part B, Urban atmosphere (12/1/1990 - 12/31/1993) Elsevier

# RSSAtmospheric Research (7/1/1986 - ) Elsevier

# RSSAtmospheric Science Letters (1/1/2001 - ) Wiley

# RSSBoundary-Layer Meteorology (1/1/1997 - ) SpringerLink

# Boundary-layer meteorology (1/1/1997 ; excluding most recent year) Ac.Search Premier

# Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society (7/1/1996 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society (1/1/1970 - ) Open access American Meteorological Society

# CDIAC communications (1994 - 10/03) Open access GPO

# Climate diagnostics bulletin (Current) Open access GPO

# Climate diagnostics bulletin (1999 - ; excluding current issue) Open access GPO

# RSSClimate dynamics (1/1/1997 - ) SpringerLink

# Climate dynamics (4/1/2003 ; excluding most recent year) Ac.Search Premier

# RSSClimate of the Past (2005 - ) Open access DOAJ

# RSSClimate of the Past Discussions (2005 - ) Open access DOAJ

# Climate Research (9/1/1990 - )

# RSSDynamics of Atmospheres and Oceans (7/1/1976 - ) Elsevier

# Earth Interactions (1/1/1997 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Earth interactions (1/1/1997 - 11/30/2003) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Global atmosphere and ocean system (3/1/2002 - 12/31/2003) Ac.Search Premier

# History of meteorology (2004 - ) Open access DOAJ

# RSSInternational journal of climatology (1/1/1996 - ) Wiley

# International journal of climatology (1/1/1989 - 12/31/1995) Wiley Backfile

# Journal of applied meteorology (1/1/1962 - 12/31/1982) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of applied meteorology (3/1/1962 - 12/31/2000) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of Applied Meteorology (7/1/1996 - 12/31/2005) Ac.Search Premier

# Journal of atmospheric and ocean science (3/1/2005 ; excluding most recent year) Ac.Search Premier

# Journal of atmospheric and oceanic technology (3/1/1984 - 12/31/2002) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of Atmospheric and Oceanic Technology (2/1/1997 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# RSSJournal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics (1/1/1997 - ) Elsevier

# Journal of Atmospheric and Terrestrial Physics (12/1/1950 - 12/31/1996) Elsevier

# RSSJournal of Atmospheric Chemistry (1/1/1997 - ) SpringerLink

# Journal of atmospheric chemistry (1/1/2003 ; excluding most recent year) Ac.Search Premier

# Journal of Climate (1/1/1998 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Journal of climate (1/1/1988 - 12/31/2002) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of climate and applied meteorology (1/1/1983 - 12/31/1987) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of climatology (1/1/1981 - 12/31/1988) Wiley Backfile

# Journal of Hydrometeorology (2/1/2000 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Journal of Physical Oceanography (1/1/2001 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Journal of physical oceanography (1/1/1971 - 12/31/2002) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of the atmospheric sciences (9/1/1944 - 12/31/2002) Open access American Meteorological Society

# Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences (9/15/1993 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Meteorological applications (1/1/1994 - 12/31/1996) Wiley Backfile

# RSSMeteorological applications (3/1/1998 - ) Wiley

# RSSMeteorology and atmospheric physics (1/1/1997 - ) SpringerLink

# Monthly Weather Review (1/1/1997 - ) Ac.Search Premier

# Monthly weather review (1/1/1914 - 12/31/2002) Open access American Meteorological Society

# NOAA report (2002 - ) Open access GPO

# RSSOcean Science (OS) (1/1/2005 - ) Open access DOAJ

# Ocean Science Discussions (OSD) (1/1/2004 - ) Open access DOAJ

# Oceanus: the online magazine of research from Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (1/1/1996 - ) Open access DOAJ

# Open Atmospheric Science Journal (1/1/2007 - ) Open access DOAJ

# Physics and chemistry of the earth. Part B, Hydrology, oceans and atmosphere (12/1/1999 - 12/31/2001) Elsevier

# RSSPlanetary and Space Science (1/1/1959 - ) Elsevier

# RSSPolar Geography (1/1/2002 - ) Taylor & Francis

# Polar Science (8/1/2007 - ) Elsevier

# Tellus. Series A, Dynamic meteorology and oceanography (8/1/2002 - ; excluding most recent year) Ac.Search Premier

# Tellus. Series A, Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanography (1/1/1997 - ) Blackwell

# Tellus. Series B, Chemical and Physical Meteor

Answer 2

Excellent point, but this is only another 'Inconvenient Truth', or fact that alarmists will try to either ignore or dismiss completely.

They will still keep shouting that 'The Sky is Falling' however!

Climate study should not be taught as a stand-alone degree unless it encompasses many other doctrines and principles of physical science.

Edit:

Excellent point Randall E made, I had to think for a few minutes of what the reference to B and D meant.

I would probably not have been so 'Politically Correct' or subtle however since I do not treat this forum as some sort of point scoring game.

It will be interesting to see if either of them pop their heads up for this question and see what they have to say.

Answer 3

I guess Pegminer summs up the mentality of believers.  Some peoples opinion 'counts'.

To skeptics evidence counts - show us some convincing scientific evidence and we won't be skeptical.  The opinions of the people who 'count' aren't going to convince people who are naturally skeptical.

Answer 4

The ones I know all have Phd's in physics and between 20-30 years working in the field with various specialisations.

I have no problem with a meteorologist making statements on climate as they are related fields and many climatologists started in meteorology, the trouble is people who "say" founded the weather channel are not "meteorologists" but TV presenters and things like the OISM petition that gather (if you believe them) the "opinions" of dentists and M.D.s these are not climate related fields.

On the subject of how long "climatologist" has been a vocation, you say "Until VERY recently universities did not teach climate" yet your own link has the very first person "Dr. Peter Robinson" listed as state climatologist 1976-1980 thats 32 years ago and working in "Applied Climatology" at NC Uni since 1971.

Answer 5

I know one who studied atmospheric physics, wrote his PhD in the field and did his post-doc in the same field (around 20 years ago)

But to answer honestly, hard physics and chemistry are really the basic knowledge for a sound understanding.

It all then comes to your specialization in your PhD, the kind of modeling your work on.

Some very regarded universities listed in the worldwide top100 have faculties for climatology.

Answer 6

They have degrees in liberal communism.

Answer 7

From the USDA "Living Science" site:

"To be a climatologist, you need a strong background in math and physics. Courses in meteorology and climatology, as well as courses in agricultural, biological, computer, or natural sciences are part of the coursework. You need broad educational experience, because the users of climate information come from varied backgrounds. For most private consulting and many government jobs, you need a master’s or doctoral degree."

The University of Nebraska site includes the following information on climatology:

"The major in Meteorology/Climatology is designed to help you develop an understanding of atmospheric science and the processes and phenomena that result in various types of weather, the spatial and temporal patterns of weather, and the variability of climate."

What precise degree some in the field obtained is not necessarily important.  What's important is that these individuals have chosen to become authorities in climatology through classes taken, their jobs, their research, etc.  Their background is a lot closer to what is important in assessing the phenomenon known as climate change or global warming.

Good question.

Answer 8

Bingo.     "Climatologists" were rarer than "Classicists" until the global warming movement came about.     The theory may yet prove out - but to deny that unlike most of science, in this case the conclusion drives the search for evidence rather than the other way around, is nothing an honest man can do.

And by the way before the climate became a political issue, the "consensus" was universal that the MWP was globally warmer than today.

EDIT - "there are climate scientists that are meteorologists" - thanks to the man with the mine for this.    I don't know how many times I've read D or B insist that because someone is a meteorologist, his or her position on AGW should simply be ignored.

Answer 9

I think Pegminer answered this quite well, but I'll add a few things:

Being a climatologist depends less on your degree, and more on your research. There are climatologists with degrees in mathematics, atmospheric sciences, meterorology, climatology, oceanography, physics, chemistry, geography, geology, astrophysics, statistics, astronomy, engineering, earth sciences, environmental sciences, and more specific fields within those already mentioned. But as long as your research is the study of climate in its many facets, you could be considered a climatologists.

--------

Edit:

Beren wrote

"I would say anybody that has published in a peer reviewed climatology journal could be called a climatologist. "

I wouldn't necessarily say that is true. It takes more than one publishing in a climate related journal to be considered a climatologist.

Answer 10

Climate science is interdisciplinary, so there are climate scientists that are meteorologists, geologists, oceanographers, physicists, chemists, ecologists, etc. and they can be in all sorts of different academic departments.  I actually think you'll find that the advocates don't use the term "climatologist" so much as "climate scientist" or "atmospheric scientist."  Historically climatology typically dealt with the division of the Earth into various climatic zones distinguished by their vegetation.  In fact, that was the way that climatologists mapped climate in regions with sparse meteorological data. I doubt that most of the people doing research on global warming would call themselves climatologists, simply because climatology has meant something a bit different historically. I think climate science is a relatively new term that encompasses the Earth's climate and its physical processes as a whole.

I'm in a doctoral program in climate science, but I don't think the degree will say that, it will actually say "earth science" (it could also have said oceanography). Before I entered this program I had graduate degrees in physics and atmospheric science. Most of the people that enter the program have advanced degrees in physics, chemistry or even engineering.

There are lots of geologists and meteorologists that are doing research in climate science, and their opinions certainly count. However there are many people that neither do research in the field nor have any training (like TV weatherman John Coleman) that try to dupe people into believing that they are experts when they are not.

EDIT: Hmm, I'm not quite sure people are getting the nuance here.  While climate scientists can be physicists, or chemists, or geologists, etc., most physicists, chemists, geologists are not climate scientists. They study other things. And perhaps the "meteorologists" that were being pooh-poohed were TV weathermen instead of real meteorologists.

And don't worry 2B or not 2B, the programs in climate science are extremely interdisciplinary: my program includes graduate level study in atmospheric science, oceanography, mathematics, and chemistry and physics applied to the ocean and atmosphere.  I'm sure most programs are similar, they have to be, the study of climate includes all these things.

Another EDIT: Ben O, don't try to twist my words around, when I talked about people's opinion counting I was responding specifically to the question asked, something which you did not even attempt in your "answer."