Question:

Leader of the pack, Fact or Myth?

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This is stemming from an answer I just read from another question...

Does the theory that dogs run in packs and require a pack leader still hold true even though they are bred as companions now?

Is it considered ego gratification when someone calls themself "the leader of the pack?"

Can someone gain trust, love and more importantly respect from there dog using only just affection and not worrying about becoming leader of the pack?

Opinions and Arguments welcome. Go at it people!! =)

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  1. Fact. Even though dogs were domesticated hundreds of years ago, that basic instinct is always there. If the human doesn't take that role, the dog will. There has to be levels of hierarchy. You see this in other species as well, ( humans too ), that live and/ or work in groups.


  2. I believe that the pack instinct is still strong in our companion dogs.

    It gives a dog a sense of comfort stability to know where his place is, in his/her pack, even if its a human pack.  It takes alot of stress away from the dog if someone other than himself is the pack leader.  It's best that the adult owner/trainer be viewed by the dog as the leader or alpha dog.

    It's not for the ego of the human, but to benefit the mental health of the dog.  

  3. Ok I do believe the leader of the pack and it makes complete since to me. I have my dogs respect and I show him affection and what not but when I tell him to sit, I want him to sit the first time, and if you are the master, using different word, he will listen to me the first time I say it. Just like children, do you let them get away with everything or do you have to show the boundaries??? Which is showing your kids you are the boss. Same thing holds up with dogs.  

  4. All dogs need either to have a leader or to be a leader.  They are still animals even though they are bred to be companions.  The animal instict is still there.  A dog needs structure and rules and discipline and exercise and love in balance to be a well nurtured well balanced dog.  It's like kids...same thing.  Kids need structure, physical activity, mental stimulation and love in order to thrive and if they don't get it, they will take control of the house by causing chaos.  Dogs will take control by being aggressive.  

    Some people do have quite and ego and call themselves leader of the pack but some really are.  Lots of men call themselves that but it's really their women who are the bosses in the house....lol  Every household is different in this respect.

  5. It's a fact. But, it's a fact blown hugely out of proportion.

    Firstly, wolves have packs. But the pack is made up of the breeding parents and the offspring. The alpha male and female are usually leaders with no contest. The other wolves rarely try to gain control of the pack and this is not some big huge issue for them.

    Second, you have to remember that dogs are domesticated. Wild dogs tend to be more independent then the average wolf. Dogs are not wolves and some of their behavior will be different from each other.

    In my house, my one dog has more status then the other. But I am leader. To gain that leadership, I did nothing. I feed them, train them, walk them. They show no dominance towards me and I never have a problem with them. I'm part of their pack, but I don't have to fight them for leadership.

    Most people go too far with this. They interpret everything their dog does as them trying to be dominant, when in actuality, it's normal dog behavior. People can still have dominance problems with their dogs, but not many do. People out there really cling to the old dog behavior methods. Dog behavior methods that were long ago proven to be false. So while the pack theory is not a myth, some ideas stemming from it are.

  6. Excellent!

    Yes, I do believe that dogs need to have a leader. However, I believe that most people misunderstand the concept of "Alpha" and think that it means pushy/bossy/obnoxious behavior rather than a confident, cool bearing and being in control.

    It is absolutely possible to be the leader of the pack and never raise your voice or your hand to your dog. "Just affection?' No. Affection and rules and boundaries, maintained using positive training and consistency? Absolutely.

    Leaders keep their head, they control resources, and they provide guidance. Leaders don't scream, roll dogs onto their backs, or escalate threats if threatened. They problem solve and look for proactive solutions rather than taking the "don't do that" approach and allowing a dog to figure out for itself what it should do instead - usually resulting in numerous mistakes along the way.

  7. It is a fact that Dogs are social animals. Just like humans, Dogs look for leadership (only more so, since the social instincts in dogs are stronger than in humans). If a leader isn't present, the dog will try to become that leader. Thus human owners have a choice; either they will be the leader of the dog, or the dog will be the leader of them.

    Being affectionate only will not earn respect; indeed, haven't you ever noticed that people who don't stand up for themselves get walked on? As the dog's leader, a human needs to be affectionate, but also disciplined. We understand the human world, we understand dangers that our dogs might not. It is thus our responsibility to keep our pets safe from what they don't even know might hurt them. Which means we have to be the ones to set the rules, not them, and he have to uphold those rules even if the dog doesn't like them. You might dislike the concept of being the dog's leader, but all that means is we have responsibility for the pet.

    For example, say you are walking your dog and about to cross the street. Who should determine when it is safe to cross the street, you or the dog? If you say that you should determine this, then you are being the leader.

    And mind you, by being the leader, we are making the life of our dog more enjoyable; they are free to be dogs, they don't have to try to figure out the human world. They can trust us to understand it for them (the question, of course, is if that trust is misplaced). A dog with a firm leader is much happier than a dog with an affectionate welcome mat. Unfortunately, those are the only two options.

    EDIT: Talltail, by feeding, training, and walking your dogs, you ARE being the leader. Bad leaders have to fight for leadership; a good leader is fair but controls the resources that the dog desires (food, attention, etc). Whenever your dog wants more food (possibly the food you are eating yourself) and you don't give it to them, you are asserting yourself as the leader. You are telling them "It is my way, not your way."

  8. > Lots of men call themselves that but it's really their women who are > the bosses in the house

    Lol, that is so true. Women are usually in control of the finances, food, etc., so they control the pack through the control of resources.

    This article of a 30-year study on dogs at Yale and UC Berkeley has some really interesting results on pack structure.

    http://www.seattledogs.com/Article1.htm

    A significant finding is that:

    **"Using physical force of any kind reduces your "rank." Only middle-ranked animals insecure in their place squabble. "

    I think it is really unfortunate that many "trainers" recently just try to use pack arguments to excuse their forceful techniques. Such techniques may work but they are dangerous and do not work as well as controlling resources (i.e. reward based techniques).

    I do believe that dogs need structure and discipline, but this "leadership" can be achieved through controlling a dog's access to food, toys, freedom, etc. The macho hit, flip your dog over, and growl at him techniques are really unnecessary and will frequently cause more harm than good. Having to use forceful physical techniques to achieve leadership is all myth.

  9. Almost All Dogs Know That Humans Are Different Them If Socialized

    From a young Age. Dogs Will Pick a Leader Of The Pack If 3  or

    more dogs live together. But it will not be a human.

  10. All dogs have a pack drive.

    That said, I do NOT think that every single behavior problem comes down to the owner not being "alpha"

    Domestic dogs do not have as strict of a pack structure as wild canines (such as wolves). "Dog" packs dissipate and regroup far more frequently then wild canines. They are also more apt to take in new members and changing leaders. Of course breeds that are (genetically) more primitive will have higher pack drives. It's going to vary from dog to dog.

    "Respect, Trust & Love" are very human terms. Dogs aren't wolves and the definitely aren't humans.

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