Lisbon Treaty (very important)?

Question

I want to know how you're going to vote.

I'm strongly in the "NO" camp because of the following reasons:

=> We were not given a chance to vote on it, ( like some people are saying) they had to leave us vote on it because our constitution protected us.

=> The Lisbon Treaty is a violation of our constitution and this referendum ( which is trying to be passed off as just a yes/no vote on adopting the Lisbon Treaty, it's not, it's a vote to change our constitution so it can then be allowed to be passed )

=> Corporate taxation will be raised to a standard EU level and we can't afford to do this as we have a mush higher cost (wages, insurance, distribution costs, because we are an Island Nation. We won't be able to attract any new multinationals and the ones we have will leave.

This is the most important referendum this state has had since it’s foundation.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AmHu06jb05Xuy2dAWJItaY8FMBV.;_ylv=3?qid=20080526032919AA5sDgB

Answer 1

I am against the lisbon treaty, we will lose our neutrality if we vote yes. of course they are saying we won't lose it but on the other hand they are talking about making a european military where as all member states have to fight in a war if Europe was to go into one. we lose power in a lot of places because we are a smaller country. the lisbon treaty means that they can change all our laws (they've already change a lot of them in the last few years). they'll change with regards to abortion.

its creepy if you think about it, if the lisbon treaty is ratified, it'll make Europe one big country where we'll have one leader over all of us, every country will have the same laws. we will all no longer be seperate countries. next stage is to

rename Europe to United States/countries of Europe (USE). there will be no such thing as Ireland, the UK, Germany, France etc.

Answer 2

I'm voting a very definate yes. I read the document cover to cover, have been studying histoty, politics and geography at third level for three years and can say that almost all the no arguments are incorrect. EG

Argument 1: Ireland have less of a say in the EU

Wrong: The system of voting gives a disproportionately large vote value to smaller states.

Argument 2: The EU will control everything

Wrong: The EU will control the European market and have joint contol of issues such as environment. Irelans will contain full control of areas such as industry, tourism, education etc.

Argument 3: It violates our neutrality

Wrong: Enhanced co-operation is not fully extended to defence and security matters. It is only in the event of a direct invasion of the EU that Irish soldiers will fight and let's face it they'd do that anyway.

Argument 4: The Irish citizens have no say anymore

Wrong: If 1m citizens from any state take issue with a piece of legislation it must be brought back to the table.

Answer 3

i dont get to vote because im not old enough but i tried to read that booklet that got sent out and it was the most boring and confusing thing ive ever tried to read! what i did get out of it i didn't like, I'm pretty sure  i understand that the power will be split into thirds with 2 thirds of the countries being in power at one time and the big countries being in the third that is in constant power! is that right? i dont know i just generally dont like its ideals, i agree with the eu in gneral and im aware that the world is changing but what scrap of our nationality are we going to keep?

Answer 4

YOu said you agreeed with me in this question asked before, so Im gonna repeat myself.

Lets get the NO argument out there!

Im voting no. Why?

1 -The EU council told all countries NOT to hold a referendum. They were not happy with Ireland, but because of the strength of our courts, we HAD to have one.

2- Not holding a referendum undermines the rights of people in other countries to have their say.

3- Although the government claims that Irish neutrality will not be affected, we CAN be forced to spend money building up our army.

4- Ask the farmers.

5 -The EU council have won't allow any institution to publish a proper document fully explaining the whole treaty. They say they will publish one when the treaty is voted in. They want us to bring in a treaty, and THEN they will explain it! That's like signing s job contract without reading it!

6 -Co orperate taxation will be raised to EU levels. This is tax on foreign companies. In Ireland it is low, and this is why we are doing well economically. If the treaty comes in, we will be forced to raise it, and foreign companies will leave. There WILL be job losses!

7 - Every 10 years, for a period of 5 years, Ireland will have NO representaion at the EU commission.

8- This treaty is not properly explained. Don't vote for change if you don't know what the change is. VOTE NO!

ALso, to hypersquirrel

Argument 1: YOU are wong! Every 10 years, for a period of 5 years,  Ireland WILL have NO say in the EU. We will have no representation.

Argument 2: Majority Voting. Ireland CAN and WILL be over ruled.

Argument 3: It violates our neutrality. CORRECT! We can be forced to increase the size and power of our army. Lets face it, if there is a war, Ireland will be pressurised in to joining.

Answer 5

My Vote goes into the YES group. The Lisbon treaty, even though a bit overly bureaucratic, is an attempt to mimic the United States. The European problem this treaty addresses is one of: How to unite a great number of countries under one political umbrella when all countries have a rich, diversified and strong individual culture.

Just look at the arguments we have here in Ireland

Answer 6

These are the main points laid out in the Treaty. Everybody should look at the pros and cons of each point and decide what their impact will be on Ireland. YOU should know what you are voting for as it will affect our future  and it will affect us. You decide!!

1. Top jobs

A politician will be chosen to be president of the European Council for two and a half years, replacing the current system where presidency is rotated between member states every six months. Another post to be created will be the EU High Representative for Foreign and Security Policy, combining the current roles of EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana and external affairs commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner.



2. Charter of Fundamental Rights

The Lisbon Treaty makes the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights a legally-binding document. The charter lists the human rights recognized by the European Union.



3. Citizens’ initiative

Under the Lisbon Treaty, the commission is obliged to consider any proposal signed by at least one million citizens from a number of member states.



4. National parliaments to get ‘yellow card’ facility

All proposals for EU legislation will have to be sent to national parliaments, who will then have eight weeks to offer a ‘reasoned opinion’ on whether they believe the proposal respects the principle of subsidiarity (this is the principle by which decisions should as far as possible be made at local or national level). If enough national parliaments object to a proposal, the commission can decide to maintain, amend or withdraw it.



5. Smaller commission

The European Commission is the EU’s executive arm; it puts forward legislation and ensures that EU policies

are correctly implemented. Since 2004, it has been made up of 27 commissioners, one from each member state. Under the new treaty, the commission will be reduced to 18 members from 2014, with membership rotating every five years. This means that only two-thirds of member states will have their own commissioner at any one time, and each country will lose its commissioner for five years at a time.



6. European Parliament to get greater powers but reduced numbers

Currently, the European Parliament has joint lawmaking power with the Council of Ministers over about 75% of legislative areas. If the Lisbon Treaty enters into force, co-decision will be extended to virtually all areas of EU policy.

The European Parliament comprises 785 MEPs from across the union; under the treaty, this will be permanently reduced to 751. The number of Irish MEPs will drop from 13 to 12.



7. New areas of EU competence

The Lisbon Treaty will set out those areas over which the EU has exclusive competence, shared competence with member states, or supporting competence. The treaty gives the EU no new areas of exclusive competence; however, it establishes joint competence in the areas of space and energy. It also gives the EU the role of supporting competence in several new fields including health, education, tourism, energy and sport.



8. Redistribution of voting weights between member states

Within those areas to be decided by qualified majority voting, the current rules require the support of a little over 72% of member states for a law to be passed. Under the new system due to come into effect from 2014, a vote can be passed if it is backed by 55% of member states, and secondly, if these countries represent 65% of the EU’s population. It can also be passed if less than four countries oppose it. The changes mean

that it will be easier to pass legislation, and more difficult to block it. Countries with smaller populations will have less chance of blocking legislation.



9. Shift from unanimity to majority voting

The Lisbon Treaty will see an increase in the number of policy areas to be decided by a majority vote at the council, rather than by unanimity. Qualified majority voting will become the norm; however, there are some notable exceptions that will still require unanimous decisions, including taxation and defence.

One area where the unanimity veto will give way to qualified majority voting is Justice and Home Affairs, covering issues such as asylum, immigration, criminal law, border controls and police cooperation. Ireland has the power to opt out of this area on a case-by-case basis.



10. Changes to common security and defence policy

The Lisbon Treaty provides for the progressive framing of a common defence policy for the European Union, which will nonetheless respect the neutrality of member states like Ireland. It also allows the European Council to change decision making from unanimity to majority voting in a number of areas, excluding military and defence. However such changes will themselves require unanimous decisions.

The treaty extends the range of peacekeeping and humanitarian missions for which the union may draw on member states to include disarmament operations, military advice and assistance and post-conflict stabilization.

Answer 7

Thanks to i know above me!! I tried REALLY hard to make sense of the booklet given to each home and failed!! i am not a lot clearer in my vote! NO all way!!!!!

Answer 8

One huge reason why people should vote no is, just say England went to war, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO WAR with them. We would have no choice, even though Ireland has always been a neutral country. If we vote yes on this treaty then we will have to go to war.

Our country will be ruled by the EU, not our government, and whatever the EU says goes.

Answer 9

I am voting no, simply because our forefathers fought hard sometimes brother against brother for our right to be independent and free.

I want us to remain that way, and yes, I have read the booklets and all the pro's and con's associated with the Lisbon Treaty, in my mind the booklets were biased towards a yes vote and designed to confuse.

We are fine as we are, if we vote yes - we would be lost and lose our right to true independence - our son's and daughter's would be forced to fight another man's war - akin to taking the King's shilling - only this time it's Brussels cent  we would be taking instead.

Answer 10

I'm for NO.

I have stacks of reasons but one in particular bugs me the most.This government,if it wanted us to vote yes,should have given the public more time to take in just what it is it's voting for and should have taken it upon itself to make sure the public had all it's questions answered long before the voting day.Even now very few truly understand what will change and how they will be affected in the future.Can anyone tell me if ratifying the treaty will mean an end to Irish voters getting the opportunity(a unique opportunity in Europe) of the right to a referendum on future issues?Would be pretty ironic if we voted for something that meant in future we wouldn't get to vote on future issues.

Answer 11

its for f**s dont vote

Answer 12

voting a definate no for the simlpe reason that the handbook sent out is overly complicated in fact i'd need some sort of magic dictionary just to understand what its saying.

i dont think the whole lisbon treaty thing has been explained to us enough. Vote "YES" was drilled into us without any proper explanation why we should.

just my opinion though :)

Answer 13

i'll be voting no,

how can you take a   taoiseach  seriously when he says "the irish people don't need to understand it, just to vote for it"!

Answer 14

I agree with you - there is a lot of vaguely threatening language being used - we will be letting the rest of Europe down, we don't want to look like we are against the EU, etc. and this is being used to scare the undecideds into voting yes - many of the people I have spoken to from other European countries have expressed the view that they would have voted against it, if they had been given the chance. I have never come across an issue where so much disinformation has been put before the voters.

Answer 15

Thanks Hypersquirrel because of your clear and easy to understand points you really helped my decision to vote yes.

Answer 16

Well I know the public seem to be slipping toward a no vote on this, but what I don't get is, why would our present government, and other major political parties be supporting a YES vote.

I feel that our government, even though I am not a supporter of the existing government, would not, especially in the current economic environment be leading us astray in the YES camp, do you not agree??

Why would they want to send us into turmoil, as the no side seems to be leading us to think?

I honestly believe we are being scare mongered by NO!

Anybody with a better explanation please do let me know.

I still haven’t fully decided myself and I will be keeping an open mind probably until voting day

Answer 17

I'm leaning towards no myself. I dont see how it can really benefit us . There's no detail in the promises of "more jobs and a stronger economy" put forward by the yay side , i just dont buy it.

It seems too soon to ratify this after the EU enlargement , maybe in five or ten years.

Answer 18

Sinn fein and its followers have the collective intellegence of a pineapple, if they are voting no I am voting yes,

I am sure people had this same debate in the 70s when ireland joined the then EEC now EU, Saying yes to europe was the best thing we ever did and joining the euro has cushioned the blow of the harsh economic conditions that exist today, just look at the UK and the current economic outlook there is a lot worse that here because together(the eurozone members) are stronger and not as exposed.

"Success favours the wilderbeast that sticks close to the herd when crossing the river, its always the straggling one out on its own that gets eaten by the crocodile".( you can keep that one i just made it up just to confuse the shinners,)

Answer 19

NO.... our ancestors and in my case my grandfather fought for our rights...voting yes throws it all back in their faces....

NO!!!

Answer 20

I'm for NO,  Isn't it ironic that the same "Republican" party that

slammed the good Michael Collins who in a genuine Hobson's binder,should forfeit his life while this same party will now advocate an utter "gravy-train" fudging and sell out our Constitution . If a spark of integrity were left, is it not plain that this YES  foisting is a "legalise" subversion and a treasonous betrayal of the sovernity so dearly realised in the name of "dead generations"

Will the lazy B*******s not advocate a NO for a redrafting

Answer 21

Don't worry, I'm voting no!

= )