Looking for opinions on moving from San Fransisco to Panama?

Question

I'm considering selling my house and moving to Panama or Costa Rica. I'd walk away from here with about $400k and would like to live near a nice beach community and semi retire. I'm 45.

Answer 1

Hermanas,everybody is flocking to Panama now.The day I was coming back home to the states,I saw this old dude in Calidonia with a t-shirt that said "I rather go hunting with d**k Cheney than go swimming with Ted Kennedy." It depends on what you like really.If you want quiet-beach go to Bocas del Toro.I, myself prefer to be close to the city.I would buy one of those houses in Balboa or Ancon.Amador beach is just a hop,skip,and a jump away.I'm too lazy to write a novel about it.

Answer 2

Stick with Costa Rica.  Less worries in the end.  Panama has too many middle-men who want a piece of everything you do.  

Don't expect a perfect world either.  There are plenty of negatives to go along with the positives.  The cost-of-living situation makes this very attractive and worth considering.

Answer 3

You have the basics in previous answers, though there are now two real estate associations in Panama and the major player has just signed an agreement with the U.S. Realtor Association formerly known as the "National Association of Realtors®."

If you would like details and/or more information please don't hesitate to contact us by phone or via our website.

http://www.movetolatinamerica.com/

Wishing you the best.

MovetoLatinAmerica, Corp.

Answer 4

Bocas del TOro in Panama...It is a partially touristical place, where many americans and europeans are living right now.  check that Option...

Answer 5

OH MY GOD, I feel like I live in the zoo and everybody is observing us.  What is this?

This is very insulting.

Answer 6

good idea im from panama n if u move to here u will have allots of things closely panama is one of the most beautiful country in the world the best place to live

u can go to bocas del toro or coronado or altos del maria or playa blanca

if u wnat more information u can send me a email

Answer 7

do your homework as with anything.

It has not been as rosy as some has proposed.

Buying Real Estate This subject alone would require a book to cover. The number one rule in buying real estate in Panama is: "Cover Your A. s .s. ". Of all the discussions regarding rip-offs and scams on gringos the number one complaint concerns buying real estate.

There have been reports of numerous scams regarding Escape Artist, International Living, MLS, projects for teak and noni farms and uncompleted projects on Isla Solarte, If it sounds too good to be true it is. Keep in mind that there is no such thing as a "Realtor" in Panama even though everyone seems to use the term.

There is no "Board of Realtors" or code of ethics. Also, there is no such thing as a Multiple Listing Service, although one individual uses that name for his website. For purposes of this subject I will create a new term of art to use, namely Unrealtor. Panama is rife with gringos preying on gringos in real estate scams. It seems that every crooked real estate salesman has moved to Panama, so always CYA. First, never ever buy real estate in Panama sight unseen, I repeat, never ever. Second, never buy real estate on the first look, no matter how hard the Unrealtor presses.

There's lots of available real estate in Panama and most of it will still be available a year from now. It is suggested that you rent a place for six months or a year to make sure that's where you want to live. This will give you time to learn the community, get to know your potential neighbors and check out real estate prices. You may be amazed to find that the house the Unrealtor tried to sell you for $400,000 can be bought for $250,000, he would have pocketed the $150,000 difference, of course. When you get ready to make an offer to buy, get yourself a qualified real estate attorney and make sure he/she represents you and not the seller. Do not, I repeat, do not use an attorney suggested by the Unrealtor or seller. In Panama there is no such thing as Title Insurance so you must use due diligence to the maximum. There are two main categories of property ownership in Panama "Titled" (Titlo) and "Right of Possesion" (Posesserio Derecho) which is beyond the scope of this paper. There are also many ways of holding title which is also beyond this scope.

HERE IS TOP 10 LIKES AND DISLIKES by Panama Neil.

of the yahoo group viviendo en panama.

here is the link.. but in case it doesn't work i posted the top 10 Likes and TOP 10 Dislikes.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/viviendo_e...

Top Ten Likes

1) Pensionado program that allows you to receive discounts at

restaurants, airfares various services, and no tax on world wide

earnings. But note that many Panamanian business will try and not

honor the discounts or make you go through a very large hullaballo

to use it. Others will simply raise their price to cover the

discount.

2) 20 year tax exonerations on the purchase of many properties.

(but no local services, paved roads, lighting, emergency services,

and watch out when it expires it will make US property taxes seem

like a bargain)

3) US Dollar currency keeps it simple for sure. Even for us

Canadians

4) Excellent medical services. Although we had to be alert to

catch a potential deadly mistake at Paitilla Hospital during the

birth of my son, I have found the services here darn good and

Paitilla Hospital has one of the more advance diagnostic CTs in the

world. It is noticeably cheaper than the US for most services but

not the huge bargain that many make it out to be.

5) Cheap restaurants. It is nice to be able to go out and eat

basic stuff for cheap and the other day I had two pizzas and a beer

for 5 bucks. Panama is not a culinary destination and their local

beef is tough as nails but cheap it is. Stick with the Fillet Mignon

and buy your own at Price Smart for a barbecue (I call Xostco

because it is a Costco clone ). Chicken is great here but watch

where your seafood comes from you would not want anything that even

swam close to the Bay of Panama

6) Road side settling of your traffic tickets

7) Beautiful country side driving through Portobello, Capira,

Chiriqui, Azueros. You can still live here cheap if Ocean front is

not required for your dream fulfillment. But you are in the middle

of nowhere and there is nothing to do.

8) Family nature of Panama. People love their kids it seems and

the poorest of people have their kids smartly dressed in clean

pressed clothing. This strong sense of family is really missing in

North America these days. Kids seem more respectful here and I

don't see the abundance of purple hair tattoos and piercing. Maybe

it is because schools require uniforms. Either way my sense is that

it is a completely different world in that regard and I like it a

lot. I never want to bring up my kid in North America.

9) Beautiful abundant and cheap fresh fruits from roadside

stands (never pay Reba Smith or Super 99 prices)

10) Excellent ex pat community (thanks Laura) that allows you to

make many new friends, share experiences, help each other out and

find new adventures together.

Top Ten Dislikes

1) The culture of deceit and cheating that is part of the very

fabric of Panama. Especially when they see a Gringo coming, Gringos

apparently have a bulls-eye painted on their forehead that says "go

ahead and cheat me". Almost everyone will try and cheat you for as

little as a few cents to a few dollars or as much as they can. They

have a saying Juego Vivo or what is essentially a more polite term

for corruption and thievery. But they also cheat each other this

way and it is almost standard fair so you have to fight for

everything all the time. Your lack of fight is seen as a lack of

intelligence or strength. They get away with it because Gringos do

not know the language or cannot be bothered to speak up, for so

little sometimes, so they keep on doing it. You can never relax and

trust here and this spoils the Panama experience more than anything

else in my books .

2) The other way they cheat you here is to rob your time. They

never do anything right the first time or most times not the second

or third times either. They will tell you whatever you need to hear

to make you go away from the phone or service counter, in order that

they do not have to do any work to serve you. This will force you to

return another time and start over . Free time is almost non

existent it seems since one spends hours everyday just trying to get

basics done. Blatant lies are normal, misinformation almost always

and incompetence usually. Even from the large companies.

3) The complete lack of efficiency, thinking or planning in

advance by Panamanian workers. How come there is never time to do it

right the first time but always lots of time to go back and fix it

later ? I have never seen so many construction people walking around

with out levels or tape measures or other necessary tools. Things

get installed wrong, crooked, sloppy, or damage other things while

being installed and it is acceptable and they are surprised when

you complain. If you think you are going to build something here be

ready for a nightmare. I have been trying to complete a renovation

for a year and a half, using one of Panama top builders, Have lost

thousands of dollars and the place is no closer than when I started

because they keep doing everything wrong.

4) The blatant lies. You will seldom get the truth here. Often

from incompetence (they do not know so they invent a story). Many

people invent a story to suit their purposes and it seems acceptable

to do so. Real Estate web sites manipulate "sold prices" and

publish sales that happened often more than two years ago to

artificially represent the opportunities and get you to call so they

can scam you into something else (bait and switch). Others charge

you hundreds of dollars to give you real estate tours and then show

you properties they own or are flipping themselves. They pressure

you into buying and then if you do not, they call you tire kickers

or otherwise insult you and threaten to have you black balled by

other realtors. Some pose as an MLS service when they are not and

they lie about roads being built or hotels investing in the area. If

I was to believe what I have heard then The President has thousands

of houses all over Panama they are building roads too and The

Decameron Hotel has bought most of Panama to develop new hotels

5) The total lack of competition. Think things are cheap here?

Wrong guess again. The retail market is blocked and many product

lines are exclusively held by one company often from an old rich

Panamanian family. Want a Toyota ? Shop around ? Not. Ricardo Perez

is it. Looking for a deal ? Good luck. When you talk about buying it

from the US and saving thousands of dollars they will tell you they

will not honor the supposedly international Toyota warranty. Same

thing on many other products. Things most often sell here for "more

than US MSRP". What happened to the supposed lower cost of living

here ? It is essentially a myth. Car insurance costs more,

electricity costs more, electronics cost more, name brand cloths

cost more, cars cost more, computers cost more, the only thing you

might save on is the restaurants but the quality of the food will

often disappoint. Panama is not a culinary destination by any

stretch of the imagination

6) Total lack of safety. There are no handicapped access ramps,

limited crosswalks, general disregard for pedestrian traffic and

emergency vehicles. Forget it in a condo fire as not only can they

not evacuate you above the seventh floor, the fire trucks cannot get

there as they will be stick in the traffic gridlock. There are no

roof top heli pads and limited safety provisions for your escape in

a fire. The Busses and Taxis are unsafe, with bald tires and worn

breaks. I have never seen so many corpses on the street or Trucks

overturned on the highway. My whole life I never saw a dead

pedestrian in Canada . Here I am at three and climbing it seems

Safety inspection can be bought for a few dollars in "Propina" or a

tip to the inspector. Trucks and Busses run red lights at top speed.

Kiss your *** goodbye if you are T-boned while riding in one of

those taped together little Corolla taxis

7) Construction quality is painfully bad. Buildings leak and are

not properly ventilated , so they grow molds and fungus and we all

know the heath risks associated with that. They are made cheap and

fast and with little concern for those that have to live in them.

They are build only for profit to the builders since a quality

reputation seems to be of little value in Panama . Often, and in the

case of my building in Punta Pacifica built by the "Berm " company

they sell the parking spots n front of the elevator access so you

do not even have clear access to bring things up and down from your

suite. They (not in my case) often make parking spots so small your

door cannot miss crashing in to the neighbors car. They under

provide storage and guest parking and care not about maintenance and

repair costs after they have sold. That is why monthly fees are

often so high. Buildings are painted, in Panama , which has

incredibly high humidity, and where one rainy season will ensure it

needs to be repainted within a year at owners association expense.

Panama is not known for earthquakes but one can imagine the

devastation if these cinder block buildings received a sharp left-

right jolt.

8) Traffic. It is almost intolerable now. The noise, the car

alarms and incessant honking. But imagine when they complete all the

towers in Punta Pacifica, SanFrancisco and along Balboa Ave. It

already takes me 20 minutes just to get to the Paitilla traffic

circle from Punta Pacifica. Quicker to walk if I wasn't going

further and didn't mind showing up soaked in sweat or rain with a

lung full of diesel fumes and dust. Imagine what it will be like to

go across town to Albrook for instance, when these towers are

finished. To go anywhere for that matter. Balboa is already

gridlock, what will happen ? Bottom line you will have to walk if

you want to get anywhere. Rain heat, lack of traffic safety,

notwithstanding. Or get in a cab only to sit in the same traffic.

Have you seen the taxis taped together, smashed everywhere. This

should tell you about the safety – there is none.

9) Sanitation. This they are allegedly going to fix but when ?

and meanwhile where ever you go, including the posh restaurants in

Amador, your beautiful open air meal is interrupted with the lovely

smell of the open sewers dumping millions of tons into the bay. Hmmm

mmm mm don't you love the fresh seafood from Panama Bay ? The

vultures picking at the effluent on the garbage strewn beaches along

Balboa. Better out than in I always say. Now imagine that combo

with the beautiful Panamanian Diablo Roja (Red Devils) or hundreds

of smashed taxis sitting blocked in traffic spewing tons of Diesel

and gas fumes into the air. Sure is good we saved all that money

coming here.

10) So lets leave the city and go to the Beaches,. Thank God for

the beaches. Too bad they are an hour or two away and well, not so

pretty after all. If you think beach and Hawaii, Cancun, Turks and

Caicos or Brazil come to mind. Then do not bother here because it is

not the same. If the above are tens then the beaches here are

largely a 6 with a few exceptions like Farallon, two hours out from

the city. Here you get to drive down a dangerous, garbage strewn

highway to come to what is most often an unpaved road, surrounded by

ramshackle houses, to get to a place you cannot leave alone without

being ripped off. Notice the razor wire fences, fortified compounds,

and realize they are there for a reason. Most people I know want to

travel from home base here in Panama, back to families in the US or

Canada or to world adventure. So know this. You need to hire a full

time guard unless you are in a gated community. If you leave your

house unattended say goodbye to your Plasma TV, stereo and air

conditioning units etc. And now that you are here two hours from the

city , what will you do ? Shopping is a long drive away as is

medical care, entertainment, and most things we have come to

appreciate. And you will pay pay pay for this privilege now. Before

it was so cheap you lived with the down side. Now it is not cheap at

all , so do you still live with it ? Only you can answer that

question. I think Panama has priced itself out of the market and it

is time to stop overlooking the blemishes because it was such a good

deal. It is no longer a good deal and following the late bloomers

here will only leave you with the quintessential appropriate view

one gets from far back of the herd.