MMA/Boxing/Self Defense/ general Martial Arts Quiz 1.?

Question

Some good answers (mostly from TC) on my quiz yesterday.. .. maybe my questions were beyond your realm... try these, and help educate new people.

1. In boxing/kicboxing,MT, etc. If I am holding the focus pads and tell you give me a 1,2,3,4. What will you do? If I say 3, 1, 4, 2 is this good? If so why? If not why?

2. Give what you think are 3 most common street attacks and what your reaction to each would be. (No proper answer here, but it will illuminate some of us).

3. When choking someone, what are the signs that tell you they are out, when and how do you know to let go of the choke? On the flip side, if you have been rendered unconscious via a choke, describe the experience.

4. (semi hard one, probably not covered in most MAs) what packs the most energy/punch upon impact: A shuriken, a basebal bat, a 45 caliber bullet, a 9mm bullet hollow point, a Nolan Ryan fastball or a knife stab? Short explanation of why you think so.

Help some people out with your great answers!

Answer 1

1. Limited boxing experience.

2. Haymaker, pathetic clinch, come with friends.

- Haymaker: duck, close distance into t-clinch, tani otoshi takedown, finish with an elbow to the eyeball and check surroundings.

- Pathetic clinch/wrestling: Over/underhooks, osoto gari and aim the back of his head at the concrete.

- Come with friends: De-escalate verbally if possible, if not, run like a little bish.

3. I know to let go when they stop clawing at my arms, or close to it. In self defense, a few seconds after they stop fighting back and or go limp.

- Choke out: First you get really comfortable almost like it feels good like you are in a warm bed. Next thing you know, you're waking up and everyone is standing around.

4. I'd say 9mm is the fastest trajectory, 45mm has the most stopping power, baseball bat has the most power in terms of pounds per pressure.

EDIT: Also want to add that before you feel comfortable while getting choked, your face feels like its going to explode.

Answer 2

I'll give #2 a shot...

Where i'm from, the first attack would be someone pointing a gun at you, sometimes for no particular reason. I would just hand over whatever personal items they wanted. If I had to, I would attempt to grab the weapon with both hands, and move off the line of fire, while shouting for help. I won't focus on the disarm; if I can get the gun away, that's great, but my goal is always not to take a fatal gunshot. Some would disagree.

Second, the sucker punch: If attacker got the drop on me, and didn't KO me with the first punch, I would cover up, try to get my senses back, and either attempt to get distance to return punches, or close the distance and try to turn it more or less into a wrestling match.

Third, The bumrush (multiple attackers) These situations vary. Could be 2 on one, could be 5 on 1, attackers could be armed. In real life, escape is the best option. Survival, in the form of curling up on the ground, and protecting your vital areas, and praying that someone comes along to help you, is the next best thing. none of my solutions are fancy, but they are realistic.

As for question #4, most will probably go with the .45; Im going to go with the knife. Projectiles lose a lot of momentum depening on the range they are fired/thrown from. A stab, or multiple stabs from short range generate a lot of force. A knife is sharp, not blunt, and power isn't necessary to do damage, just speed.  

Answer 3

I'm about to fail this one...

1) jab, cross, lead hook, rear uppercut. lead hook, jab, rear uppercut, cross.  The second combination isn't good because the punches flow horribly. After turning your hips for the lead hook, your jab will be a kind of slappy back hand. The uppercut can come out fine, but the cross will be a bit slow. Since its coming off of the same hand as your cross, you have to recover your stance first, which will take a lot longer than if you had thrown a punch off of your lead hand first. .

Also, there are issues with the range of these punches. compared to jabs and cross, hooks and uppercuts are pretty short. If you threw a hook then a jab, you'd be jamming your jab. Unless, I suppose if you stepped back a bit... but then you're too far away for the uppercut. If you throw an uppercut then a cross, unless the other guy steps back, you'll be jamming your cross.

Even though I'm currently training in Boxing and Sanda, none of my coaches use numbers. So I could be WAY off in my answer, if I misinterpreted '4'

2)

- Sucker punch haymaker. If I caught it in time, my reaction would be to duck and weave under the punch. More than likely, though, I won't catch in time so I'll either cover or get punched square in the face. Or if someone just runs up and punches me in the back of the head, i'll probably be unconscious.

- "takedown." A sloppy takedown or attempt at clinching. I'll drop levels, get underhooks and go for a throw and/or demolish his thighs/groin with my knees.

- shirt grab, punch to the face. I would probably interpret the shirt grab as a punch and evade or parry it. But if I didn't, I would probably try to cover as the punch comes then employ a wrist lock, as this is one of the few situations where I'd feel confident in such a maneuver. I don't really know, though, 'cause this one hasn't happened to me before.

Again, I could be way off on these. I'm not paticularly knowledgeable about this kind of thing. Furthermore, most 'street attacks' that are serious will obviously include multiple opponents or weapons, in which case the attacks and responses are different than my answer.

Honestly, though, most of the stuff I've seen or encountered has a 'woofing' stage before anything physical goes down. It's during that time that I would/have evaluated whether a fight was inevitable, and if it was, I'd do the sucker punching.

3) I've never choked anybody into complete unconsciousness, but I'd imagine that they would go limp. Still, I'd hold the choke for a few more seconds, just to be on the safe side.

One time I didn't feel the tap and I kept the choke on for a few seconds too long. He was still conscious, but his movement faded into almost non-existence, which is why I let go to check on him.

4) I'm gonna guess a 45 caliber bullet. It's relatively big and it goes really fast.

Of course, it's probably the baseball, since the gun would be too easy a guess. If that were the case, I could understand because the pitch would be really fast and the object would be large and relatively heavy.

These quizzes are fun, but I'm shaky on this one.

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Answer 4

1. While I don't take boxing/ kickboxing or MT in Hapkido we do use 4 hand strike combinations. A typical 1,2,3,4 for me would be jab, cross, hook, uppercut. So changing it to  hook, jab, uppercut, cross wouldn't work if you kept the same hands throwing the same strikes or even in the same stance. Keeping the same hands throwing the techniques as originally in 1,2,3,4 would give me front hand hook followed by front hand jab, then back hand uppercut followed by a cross. Aside from the absurdity of throwing the heavy strikes first you would be way out of position to put any torque into the second strike from the same hand. It would end up being more of a snap thing, which while a jab is more speed then power I prefer to use all I can to get speed and torque into it. With my hips uncocked from the first strike that wouldn't work well or naturally.

2. Some sort of haymaker, some sort of tackle, or some sort of grapple from behind, probably a bearhug of choke.

Haymaker I would choose to sidestep outside keep my inside hand to make sure he doesn't tag me if I'm a little slow on the sidestep with an inside outside soft block and use my back hand to give him a shove in the direction he is going as I step by.

The tackle, when he lunges step back and mess up his range perhaps a knee to the face as he over extends. Maybe just shove at the shoulder and face plant him.

Choke would be a turn wrapping my lead arm over his elbows and hooking my fist back under his arms effectively wrapping both his arms leaving me almost face to face with my trailing hand free to do with what I will.

3. I don't use chokes, personal preference. In training I'll apply the force needed to do so but I won't hold it long enough to actually do it. Without putting the force into it I cheat my partner. That being said I have been choked out. Way back when I was a younger lad working at Staples (office supply store) we would have these fake back room wrestling matches. Slow drawn out moves, punches that didn't land. Not unlike the entertainment wrestling you've seen with the WWE. Anyway this new kid starts working there and people are talking about saying he needs to face me. The kid is like "sure, I got something I wanna try against you" I was like, cool sounds fun. This kid was a street kid a few years older then me. Tattoo's, scruffy, attitude..... thug. Here I was happy go lucky goin up against him not knowing he didn't know it was fake. He scooted around me, took my back while i was standing and stuck a choke in as deep as it goes. I was play fighting back, pretending to slam him against the wall, throwing my arms up like king kong with this dude on my back. All of the sudden my mind clicks, hey he isn't letting go and I and runnning out of air. I distinctly remember eyeing the manager who was running this thing (that's another story) and as a last second effort throwing my head back into my opponents face. Fast forward to waking up face down on a bare concrete floor in the back room of a Staples LOL. In that last ditch effort I managed to split this dudes bottom and top lip wide open. He was spitting blood into a plastic cup standing over me looking at me with a look of horror on his face. (apparently they told him it wasn't real while I was out) My first word? "let me shake that dudes hand" Good times.

4. I don't "know" the answer but I'll throw a well thought theory out there. The bullets (assuming they are being fired out of a gun, you didn't say) will not pack a punch on "impact" it's the giant hunk of meat bone and vitals it takes with it out the back end that does the damage. Knife stab has very little resistance going in there for little punch. The shuriken would act the same as the knife, a piercing weapon, not much punch on impact. While the ball, with more contact area the the previously mentioned, will be carrying about 150fps when it hits (little over 100mph I guessed) and it won't pierce there for causing all its energy to be spent on "impact" the bat will have even more surface area making contact. I feel that would make up for the speed the ball is traveling, hence cause more "punch on impact"

That was fun dude. When can we expect the next installment?

Answer 5

1. In my training, 1 and two are top, 3 and 4 are bottom. So 3,1,4,2 would not work. 3,2,1,4 would though.

2. Real street fights rarely ever have the same appearance as you see on tv. The attacker is either pushing (easy to dodge), or throwing a punch (side step, punch catch, neck thrust or reverse choke).

3. It would depend on what position or level of choke you are using. When using a rear naked choke you can tell by their struggle and breathing. It you are using a front choke (forward elbow) you can tell by their eyes, or if you are using a side choke like a gogoplata, you sometimes can't tell. I have been choked out in training because at times, you do not realize how much oxegen you are expending, and  the pass out point can come and go within a few seconds depending on the angle and degree of the choke. So the answer is, you are struggling to release the choke or counter it, and the next minute you realize that the fight is over.

4. I do not think I can answer this one because I would assume it would depend on if you are measuring in penetrating or crushing energy. I would guess that for pure impact vs resistance testing the 9mm hollow point would win since it rates up to 427 mps with a sub machine gun.

Answer 6

Nice:

1) Not familiar with kickboxing/Muay Thai to that extent.

2) In reality:

     a) Armed attacker asking for your wallet or valubles: Give it to them.

     b) Wild looping swing: Step in to 45, blocking arm while palm         heeling to chin. This can be followed up by a knee to inner thigh, followed by an elbow to the side of the jaw, with the other hand holding the opposite side of his head.

     c) A simple push- deflect his hands to the outside, simultaniously stepping in to a 45 and  bringing your non deflecting hand up in between his arms, palm heeling to the chin. Finish with a side choke. i think it's called a figure 4 in MMA?

3) Release 2 seconds after they go limp if self defense or start twitching, however be prepared to re apply it if they are faking. I actually thought i was tapping and they said I just went out. Kind of like it got fuzzy and then I was waking up.

4) Most definetly the fastball. If you take the speed of the baseball, and multiplied it by the differnce in size of the 9mm bullet. 100MPH X 25( the number of 9mm bullets in a baseball)= 2500 fps. the 9mm travels at 1500 fps.

edit for mike- thanks, i never was really great at math. (And I was so proud of myself)

Answer 7

1) left Jab, straight right, left  high hook, right uppercut. Second combination is good, doesn't flow quite as well as it is two left hand punches and then two right hand punches, but you never know where the opponent is going to leave gaps so you have to work the awkward combinations. You will also be working on your awareness of the range as the hook an uperecut are shorter range than the straight punches, which you can throw as you are moving back out of range.

2) running right haymaker : straight line probably punch maybe side kick. follow up if needed then escape situation

right handed knife slash: pass over, zoning to the side of attack, side kick to knee. RUN

Head butt with or without grab: look at toes so head butt is to top of my head, follow up, up elbow maybe diagonal down elbow, escape situation

3) I tried to get out of the choke, then things started to go a little dim, kinda purple/green, paniced and flailed, then training partner let me go. I really should learn to tap out sooner.

4) the 45 can pass straight through where as the hollow point have a tendency to mushroom and transfer all their energy to the target as they stay within the body. the thrown weapons will be slowed down by gravity(I meant air friction) so although the shuriken is a small impact area  the knife with its small impact area is being driven at least at an equal force as the shuriken was thrown. The fastball at 100 mph may be travelling faster than the tip of the bat which is probably around 75 mph the bat is heavier and so has more momentum and energy (how far can a ball be thrown and how far can it be hit). Hollow point, 45, knife, bat fastball, shuriken, is probably most dangerous to least, but they can all kill ya.

cont.  but I have never seen a shuriken thrown by anyone with any skill so it may move above the bat as to how dangerous it is, and I am assuming that the bullets are fired from a pistol.

Answer 8

1 )

left jab 1, right cross 2, left hook 3, right uppercut 4.

3142 would not work because after your left hook, throwing the jab is awkward. and likewise after you throw the right uppercut the cross is awkward.

2)

a: 2 handed shove. dont even let them shove me. step off line to the outside of the shove (dont fight it directly). we'll assume im on his right side from this point on.

step off to my left and deflect his arms with my left arm. trap his arms with my right arm (under my armpit)...and left elbow smash to the face. my right hand grabs his right wrist, my left arm strikes the inside of his elbow to collapse it. i "figure 4" my arms by putting my left hand on my right wrist (entangling his bent arm over his shoulder) ...i hold his elbow tight to my chest. then step back with my left foot and kneel to take him down onto his back or side.  drop my left knee oh his head, my righ on his ribs. and continue pulling to break the wrist, with his elbow against my thigh.

b: finger in the face/chest (i hate that)

righ finger in my face/chest....left "pak sao" slapping his elbow or forearm toward his centerline which clears a path for my right straight punch or backfist. right front kick to the groin or the indide of his left knee to unbalance him. both hands clasp the back of his head and i smash either knee into his face, and end with a hammerfist or knife hand to the back of the neck (if necessary)

c: wild right haymaker.

step in with my right leg, and block with my left arm (outward block kind of) and slam a thrusting palm/knife hand into his shoulder to stop his momentum.

my right elbow folds violently into his throat, then my right arm wraps around the head pulling him into a knee strike with my right knee to his stomache area (solar plexus). then both hands go around his neck and my left knee smashes into his face. or...my left arm encircles his left arm in a "hammerlock" position, i bring my left hand to my chest/stomach tightly, i step back with my right foot and kneel to smash his face into the ground. i continue the lock to control, or break. then leave.

3

when they stop resisting...let go.  you must keep your head...and not "lose it" to anger or fear. it also depends on the choke..if i can see his face...when his eyes roll back...let go. but generally speaking when he stops resisting or trying to escape..he's out..or close enough. 6-8 seconds for a tight choke usually suffices once its "sunk in"

4

the 45 cal. bullet. ...big bullet...lots of powder=WHAM!! it will have more impact becuase it is smaller than the ballbat...or the baseball. i dont care whos throwing it...id rather get hit by a baseball than a bullet.

we're talking psi here. a baseball is moving at wayyy less than half the speed of the baseball, and is smaller...that equals much more psi. it's like getting your hand stomped by a tennis shoe(baseball)...or a high heel shoe (bullet)

Answer 9

1.  Assuming you are right handed (not a south paw).  Left jab, right reverse punch, left hook, right upper cut.  If south paw, just the opposite.  3,1,4,2 usually refers to the combination you want, i.e. 3 is left jab, right reverse, left hook.  1 is just left jab.  4 is the whole combination above, 2 is left jab/right reverse.  

2.  Good question, I would say haymaker, tackle, grab.  Haymaker:  block left, circle in with right elbow to face.  A hip throw would probably work well here too.  Tackle:  Sprawl if you can, otherwise wrap arm around neck and use side fall to pile drive their face to floor.  Grab:  depends on what they are grabbing, but a number of joint locks and/or throws could work with this.  

3.  release when: They tap out, Ref/Sensei/Coach tells you to release, twitching and/or person going limp, changes in breathing.  Generally don't hold a blood choke more than ten seconds.   It feels like fading away, then nothing.  Light headed for a while until you recover.

4.  Hmm, funny question.  I would like to say the Nolan Ryan fastball, but probably the 45?

Answer 10

1. yeah, no real boxing experience here, but I would assume that as the others say jab, cross, hook, uppercut. At least that's what I think I see in movies and on HBO's 24hours boxing show.

2. One would be a guy walks up to you from the side flashing a gun/knife.    One would be a guy comes up behind you sticking their weapon of choice in your back.   One would be somebody standing directly in front of you.  None of my examples are restricted in numbers of guys. I've been in situations where it's been one guy to several, so that number's wide open.

3. Well, what I've known is there are many different reactions. I've had people just go limp, I've had them begin breathing extremely heavy, I've had them spasm/seizure, and I've had them just get really stiff. (eyes can roll back, and or dilate)

I generally let go before the full knockout, as I can feel the pressure of their fingers getting lighter on my limbs doing the choking.

I personally have never been choked out, and I know it might sound a bit a******s but I don't really like to allow people to do that to me, the same with using points. There's too many little things that can go wrong, even with a healthy person. I don't really "use" points on students when teaching, unless they beg and beg for it. Then it's one class, I make sure everybody's there so everybody can see it, and know that it works, so I don't have to do it over and over.

4. The most punch for mass would be the knife. The knife focuses all of the force behind it into a point generally 5-15 microns which compounds the pressure. Its like an old comparison I learned back in biology. A woman weighting 130lbs wearing high heels puts as much pressure on the floor in the spot of the heel as an elephant. Pretty cool eh? There are some other factors that would be involved too with the other weapons, such as the bat, swinging through, if it sticks onto the surface of the body... there is what's called the fluid shock wave. (a way to defeat a person with a lot of fat and or muscle) Which basically is the energy flowing through the body and reverberating back and forth because there's no where for it to go with the bones in the back and the bat in the front. Nasty...

Answer 11

1. Jab, cross, hook, uppercut

if you told me to do a  3 1 4 2 i would cuz you seem to know your stuff, however it might feel kinda awkward to throw, i dont know how to describe it, it just wouldnt flow.

2. Ive never been in nor have i witnessed a street fight, but i assume the most common attack would be a huge looping haymaker

3. They tap before they go out, actually now that i think about it i dont know, but i would imagine it would be a good thing to know (i await your answer).  I have never been choked out, ive gotten close but ive never gone out

4. I would say a 45.  energy is force times distance, although a bullet is small it goes ridiculously fast and probably produces the greatest force.

edit- katana i think you math is off, you didnt convert mph into fps.  100mph is roughly 68fps

Answer 12

Thanks for the question!  THIS is more in my domain.

1) We just call the last number (4 for example instead of 1,2 3,4).  This combo is jab, cross, hook, cross (in an orthodox stance it's left,right, left, right) - but most people throw the "cross" as a straight instead of as a true cross - that's a different discussion though.  The 3,1,4,2 would be OK if unorthodox - you are at least throwing l/r/l/r - but you would probably blow the combo by starting off with a power shot (the right cross). - Back to my initial statement -if you called 1,2,3,4 it would be: jab, jab cross, jab cross hook, jab cross hook cross - and on a side note, I do a cover or head movement between combos just to keep my body moving / elusive.

2) a - attack from behind/mugging - not much you can do here if you are caught off guard - if you hear your attacker - turn and face him/them.  In a multiple attacker scenario I'd be OK with striking first - be sure to strike the opponent closest to an "exit" -then run like h**l.  Single attacker scenario is similar, but I'd be less likely to attack first.  Forget nice stuff - bui gee / finger jab to the eye then groin strike - then leave fast.  Get somewhere safe and report it.

b - bar/belligerent showoff - this one's easy because most jerks don't have skills.  Be cautious to make sure the attacker moves first for legal purposes, but I'd use less damaging attacks - I would prefer standing chokes or locks if possible in this situation, but inside the "pocket" is actually safer in most cases - the haymaker is nullified, and my "dirty boxing" is good enough to be effective against most street guys - I can transition this into one of the small handful of chokes and locks I know when the opportunity presents.

c - assailant with firearm - give up the cash - don't be a hero.  Dead heroes are still dead and I've got a family to provide for.  Make mental notes for the cops and don't do anything unless he seems certain to use his weapon.  If you feel certain of being shot, go insane - throw books, chairs, bottles, punches, kicks, bites, fishhook, whatever.  Move (zig zag) as you close the gap - escrima-type angle attacks, not frontal, and get him on defense instead of attack mode.  Hopefully you are wearing clean underwear in case you end up shot...

3) I've never choked someone out, but I'll guess at this one - I'll say the victim's body relaxes and their breathing suddenly becomes less strained for one thing.  There would be a sudden softness to the neck / torso that would give underneath you.  Or (I have KO'd with a punch so this may not apply) their muscles "freeze" - like a catatonic state.   I've not been choked all the way out, but nearly - I was in a rear-naked choke - it felt like everything was fine for about 2 seconds, then I got this crazy jolt of adrenaline/panic and my vision seemed to sort of shrink - like I had no peripheral vision or something.  When I was released I had a swimmy feeling in my head and a little headache like brain freeze for a few seconds, but recovered and felt normal (physically) really fast - less than a minute.

4) I'll go with knife stab - the reason is that there is significant force being applied to a miniscule area - the knife point.  And unlike a projectile, the force has added inertia due to the attacker's body mass / kinetic force behind the stab.  The baseball bat would be a close 2nd because of the kinetic linking - depending on where the bat hits you it could increase impact by many-fold (the further out from the body, the more the exponential increase in force - hitting with the tip of the bat as opposed to nearer the grip.)  But you are applying the force to a larger area, which diminishes the energy per square inch...I'm sticking (har har) with knife, but it's an educated guess.