Martial arts question? Strength, Speed, Or ?

Question

I keep seeing questions that either the question or the answers tend to imply that the stronger or faster combatant will always win. Personally I feel that they are important but not the most important. Look at the Grand Masters in Okinawa. They live into old age and are awesome fighters even at 70, 80, 90 years old. Yet many of the students are younger stronger and faster. What do you think? These old guys regularly thrash the younger guys, and very quickly.

Answer 1

If you have 50 or so odd years of doing a certain art your body treats it the same as breathing.  So these older guys are so conditioned to perform these actions that the actions are still both strong and fast.

Answer 2

Uncle Bill always said, "Speed is B.S. Timing is the essence."  (he is pretty quick tho)

Answer 3

Release Energy.

Muchimi - heavy stickiness; you connect with the attacker, seize and control, then explode!

MAFundhelper - excellent analogy! Can I use that?

Answer 4

Good question. Are you talking about self defense or sparring/fighting. Speaking from personel experience, I would have to say experience is the biggest factor, along with timing. My instructor has been training for 40 years altogether, and his speed, power, and flexibility are no where near wht they were when I first started. However we regurly have visitors come into the school to train, and he more then holds his own sparring(with contact yes) against faster, younger, stronger people, because of his experience and his excellent timing, which is a result of his experience.

Maybe he would not be able to keep up with a UFC fighter, but then again, he is close to 60 years old. But he has really impressed some of the local guys who train MMA, and came in to work out with us. His knowledge has helped him keep up with much youger fighters.

I would also hate to be the person that attacks him on the street, because quite honestly his self defense is devestating and effortless at this point.

Answer 5

Hey pugpaws, another great question. Thanks.

I do not believe strength or sped are important IF you have the technique and the position and the wisdom to do what needs to be done. Thus, the masters can still win.

A simple example I usually give... You meet a door that says "push". You can pull all you want...and you can do it quickly, etc... it won't move. You just need to push. Simple.

The same principle can be found in martial arts.

Answer 6

Strength, speed, or (insert term here).

Honestly, I don't think that these are exclusive. They are, in fact, mutually beneficial, either all together or a combination of either technique and speed, or technique and power. Throwing a strong punch is ineffective if you do not throw it with sufficient speed to reach your opponent before he can react, and if your punch is off the mark because your technique is bad, then your punch was useless. If your punch is quick and on target, but has all the hitting power of a wet noodle, then once again, it is useless.

Will a smaller person have to use more power against a larger, stronger opponent? Not necessarily. If you possess the ability to execute the proper technique, you can disable your opponent with seemingy little effort by using THEIR force against them. BUT, you must perform the technique properly and with efficient speed for it to be effective. And even in this case, power is a component of success, albeit your opponents power instead of your own.

Keep in mind that FAST is not the same as QUICK. And, as someone else stated, timing is of the essence. Performing a technique against an opponent that is prepared and in position to defend it will most likely result in a failed technique; but, executing a sweep, joint lock, throw, or direct counter attack at the precise moment where the opponent has little to no chance to defend key to being successful.

Answer 7

When I first started capoeira, I thought it was all about speed, then strength, then skill.  I couldn't be more wrong.  When I play w/ a mestre or even an instructor in the roda, they always kick my ***.  Even if I try to pick it up and go faster and faster and faster, they can usually still 'win' by simply doing the right moves at the right time, moving at what looks like a snail's pace to me.  It is frigging amazing.

Answer 8

Well, dont get me wrong here, Speed and strength play a huge part in a fight, there is no doubt behind that, but they are not everything.

Those old okinawa masters that you talked about have a reputation that intimidates young fighters, as the old masters have much more experience.

The biggest part of the things that you have at your disposal in a fight is your mindset going into the fight. If you tell yourself: oh c**p, im about to fight a ninth degree black belt, and im only a red belt, the fight is already over. If you are intimidated at all before or during a fight, it wont matter how fast and strong you are, because you have already told yourself that you cant win.

These old masters know that, and you are right, they are not as fast and as strong as some of these younger guys, but they tell themselves that they are going to win the fight in their head. Going into a fight, and if you want to win, you never back down, and never give up. No matter what happens in a fight, you always control the outcome.

Answer 9

IMO--- I love using this abbreviation by the way, ever since Bluto pointed out what it means. No longer feeling like a dunce I may end up using it too much. lol

Well, back to the question at hand. I feel that strength and speed are not the most important in Martial Arts. Granted some level of speed is important as if one moves at the speed of molasses they must start their defense weeks before the altercation. The same goes with strength. If the individual had trouble lifting a pillow they would find it hard to budge a well hair sprayed  hairdo. Yes these are hyperbole, but it gets the emphasis across. There is an  extremely small group of people that are that weak and slow. Generally those people are bed ridden, or pretty much defenseless all together. Sad, but a fact of life none-the-less.

Martial Arts had always been designed for the "little guy". It is the equalizer when taught correctly and learned with the right mentality. That being the case it's all about timing and observation. When a student becomes "aware" they will be able to discern when an attack is coming, and if necessary what type of attack before the opposition budges. This gives the defender all the time they need to essentially move slower that the attacker and still maintain the speed to thwart the onslaught. I hear people talk about points being worthless. Well, I will disagree from first-hand experience, and the attacks do not need to have the "power" behind them of a mac truck to work. Sensei has shown some video of Oyata in previous questions which easily enough show finger strikes knocking a person down. Granted his fingers are "steel", so then take a weaker person and place a fist in the finger's stead.

It's all about technique application, and understanding of your opponent and body mechanics. That's pretty much the basics of what I believe.

Edit-pugpaws2 with regards to the additional comment.

My answer will pretty much stay the same. I don't feel it necessary to have immense power behind something, fo instance a simple joint lock. Because of the positioning and the applied lock the joint is weak and the body is weak from the pain sensation, so not superman strength needed there.

An incoming attack can be avoided and the attacker's energy used against them to create the defending technique so no "power" needed. We are borrowing their power.

Answer 10

Interesting question and one which may throw up conflicting views from many of the ufc,mma and so called realistic self styled key board ninjas lol.

I honestly couldn't say although I'd hazard a guess that a lifetimes exposure to serious martial arts training would in some people instil, superior skill level and intuition and a inner calmness and confidence and lastly an iron will which  personally I'd say is vital in real street situations, the attitude and ability to continue on regardless of pain or circumstances is a great leveller and not to be under estimated or denied.

Just my humble opinion, Best wishes :)***

Answer 11

The purpose of developing Skill is to overcome a natural strength/size disadvantage. The stronger someone is, the less skill they need to have to overcome the average person. I'm very small, I need a lot of skill to beat most people. Someone who is 6'4" and 260lbs of solid muscle needs much less skill than I do to beat most people.

If you are 70+ and have been training in an effective martial art all your life then you should have an incredible amount of skill. And while you may lack some of the resilience and endurance of younger fighters it's possible to retain a large percentage of your strength even into your 90s if you are very dedicated to it.

Just remember, between two equally skilled fighters the stronger/faster/better conditioned one will win. Between two people of equal strength/speed/conditioning the more skilled will win. So it's best to be as strong, fast, conditioned, and skilled as possible if you want to maximize your chances of victory.

Answer 12

Strength and speed are important to young fighters because that is how they judge themselves.  But knowledge is the key, masters of any system have spent time studying everying, they have drilled ever move a million times.  When I was on the high school wrestling team, a coach was a great wrestler in 70s put a beating on me every match I had with him.  I had 70 pounds on him was a heck of lot younger and stronger then him but he knew his move set.  I knew his move set and knew what was coming but he knew more about what I was going to do and was able to counter and beat me the same way every time.  I notice it's the same with me when I coach high school wrestlers.  It's the same thing in Karate or Taekwondo or any other art.

Answer 13

skill, strength and speed are all factors my friend... dont forget skill