Mike Tyson,his place in heavyweight boxing history?

Question

for me he ranks as an all time great,above Holmes and Marciano and slightly below Ali,and I put my point across from his fighting from 1986-1989.And then things for him went terribly wrong.Anyone talking about Douglas that night in Tokyo,well my opinion is he could have beaten anyone that night and people also forget the long count,Douglass was down and out for 14 seconds!Any sensible opinions?

Answer 1

Tyson ranks no higher than #25 heavyweight. There was no long count in the Douglas fight, and Tyson lost every round but one. Tyson couldn't carry Holmes' or Marciano's jockstrap (but it sounds like you have a firm grip on Tyson's).

Answer 2

I feel sorry for him.   He is not very smart but I don't believe he is a bad person necessarily.  I feel he had a very hard life and now is doing what comes naturally to him.   He is a great but his history will be marred by all his troubles.   Personally, I wish him the best and hopefully,  some peace in his life.

Answer 3

there is no fighter in the world i would want to see more then mike tyson, he had his up and downs as we all do, tyson is the king of knockouts and that is fact, fighter where S**t scared of him before the fight had started being in that ring watching this small man built like a tank prowling up and down the ring like a caged lion, all the videos of his fights in ur mind and your next, awesome, truly one of the greats of  heavyweight boxing the fact we are even talking bout this proves it

Answer 4

He is definitely in the top 5.

Answer 5

Cannot beat Eriktra answer here,summed up mike Tyson perfectly.Id agree with you that he's above Marciano and Holmes though.I believe Larry actually made a comment doubting  his ability even in his prime a few years earlier to beat Tyson..Also it was a long count,I believe 14 seconds was the time from Buster hitting the deck and rising,and as Guzman says he should send the ref roses every week for ripping off Tyson,but Douglas did fight a helluva fight that night in Tokyo and he would have tested any fighter past or present.Good question..

Answer 6

Tyson hate is still fresh in people's minds and its as popular as hating Oscar De LaHoya.  Not warrented but popular.  Given that, Tyson's place will be questioned for quite some time.  

In ranking heavyweights you MUST take into consideration TWO Points of View.  

One: Overall impact on the sport,  How well did he dominate his era.  You MUST consider this because Some champions ACCOMPLISHED more than others who might just have beaten them in the ring.  For example: Patterson accomplished more than Baer did but YOU tell me who would win IN THE RING..................which brings me to .......

TWO: In The RING.  Champions simply DO NOT rank the same In The Ring as in Overall.  Example: Rocky Marciano SHOULD be ranked higher than Lennox Lewis.  OVERALL.  However, anyone who thinks Rocky could beat Lennox IN THE RING, Just isn't being realistic.  He's simply much too small.  

Tyson is perhaps the best example of this.  He didn't accomplish much in his career and he lost to the best fighters of his era.  For all his brief dominance he is to the 90s what Ken Norton was to the 70s,  The Best of the Rest.  He's behind both Holyfield and Lewis.  Both beat him thoroughly and leave no reason to believe it would have been much different during any other time under any other circumstances.

Still, for his ability IN The Ring he must be ranked in the Top 10-12  Not many could have stopped him at his best.  The key to beating Tyson is to show NO fear and Get him past Round 6 -7.  Not many could do this.

One possibility to consider with these particular popular match ups.  Marciano is small but big enough to beat Frazier who is big enough to beat Tyson who is too big for Marciano.  Incidentially,  All of them would beat Dempsey.  

Also, if Rocky and Mike lived during the same time their respective weights would be closer.  Rocky would be around 205lbs to Mike's 216lbs and would win by late KO.  At 188 he would simply be too small esp. given the styles of both.  

OVER ALL Tyson doesnt rank very high.  Patterson accomplished more than Tyson but there is too great a difference between the abilities of each IN THE RING so he ranks above Floyd on BOTH but higher on the IN THE RING list.  He ranks above Marciano IN THE RING but Well Below OVERALL/

Personally I give more importance to the IN THE RING ranking but the OVERALL Must also be considered

OVERALL:

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Rocky Marciano

George Forman

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

Larry Holmes      

Evander Holyfield

Lennox Lewis

Joe Frazier

Mike Tyson

IN THE RING:  This ranking is very different from the overall.  For example, No one can argue that Marciano's undefeated record or Dempsey's impact or Johnson's Historical significance aren't all very important.  However, could ANY of them beat Lennox Lewis IN THE RING?  NO

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Larry Holmes

Lennox Lewis

George Forman

Evander Holyfield

Mike Tyson

Rocky Marciano

Jack Johnson

Sonny Liston

Joe Frazier

Jack Dempsey

Some things to Note

Ali and Louis are above the rest.  After that NONE of them would go undefeated in a series of battles.  Lewis has a very good chance of beating Louis but it's not likely.  George vs Lennox is about 50/50 with Lewis' boxing ability giving him a slightly better chance of surviving for a late KO.   Larry beats them both.

Frazier was much greater for ONE fight (Ali 71) than the rest of his career.  Duran was the same at 147, much greater (vs Leonard 1980) than any other fight 147 or above.   The 71 Frazier would have survived Tyson's early barrage and stopped him late.   After Ali 71 Frazier took a very steep decline and could only get up for ALi.

Marciano would have a better chance of beating Holyfield than Tyson, who loses to Holyfield each time out.  At 205 he bests both.

With so many things to consider one MUST consider BOTH ranking systems.

Answer 7

He is the youngest heavyweight right? I think that's enough for him to be place in boxing history.

Answer 8

Ranks in the top 10 I would say.  Fell from grace quicker than he used to knock people out.  After d'mato passed away, Tyson was lead by people that did not have his best interests in mind.  He was surronded by people who stole his money.  Recent pictures of him are terrible as he is overweight.  Terrible to see this happen to someone who could have been a great fighter.

Answer 9

Whatever place he holds is negated by the raping and other abohrrent behavior. Best not to discuss this animal and not give him legitimacy.

Answer 10

he ranks in the top 20, but not in the top 10, he lacked the heart of holyfield and  marciano, and couldn't handle it when a fighter stood with him.

Answer 11

It was a long count and the ref screwed up Mikes life Mike never recovered from that loss.Some fighters are never the same after their first loss and some get better after a loss or two. Here is where I see Mike Tyson in the top 10. Muhammad Ali .Larry Holmes,George Forman, Mike Tyson , Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Lenox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Ernie Shavers, Ridick Bowe

Answer 12

For those 4 years, no doubt Tyson was a beast.

His place in Boxing history- when you take out his personal dramas- he is among the best.  I would have to rank him behind Marciano.  Its a tough call for ahead of or behind Holmes.  I think I will say that Holmes barely edges Tyson, as far as having a higher place in heavyweight history.  He fought at a higher level for a longer period of time.

Unfortunately you can't seperate Tyson's bizarre behaviour from his success in the ring- because he brought that behaviour into the ring.

But I would say he is certainly a top 10 heavy of all time, and the case could well be made that he is #5, but to me he is top 10.

I will give Tyson his dues, I have watched countless fights, and the energy tyson had during the years you referenced was unmatched at any time.

I will say this, the times I have seen Tyson KO'd with the exception of Danny Williams who pummeled him, I think most heavies would get up from the shots that took Tyson out.

Anyway the answer to your question is- he is a top 10 all time, had he sustained his run another 2 years he'd easily be top 5. Ali and Louis are forever locked into the top two heavyweight spots.  I reckon he is #8 all time.  And the douglas count- even before I knew how long he was down it seemed like a long count- but that is the ref's job, and refs are seldom afforded the respect they are due.  Hope that is somewhat a sensible opinion.

Finally, I will say, his 10 or so title defenses is unheard of today in the heavyweight division.  That is for all the belts- he was not defending 1 or 2 like the current class of heavies do.

Answer 13

You have probably mentioned 3 of the top 4 , the other in my opinion was Larry Homes ( the most underated fighter ever in the heavyweight division ). I don't think anyone will argue Ali was the best after him i would have it

2 = Marciano

3 = Holmes

4 = Tyson

Answer 14

If you had asked this question  20 years ago he would probably be in the top three all time greats with rocky and ali, he was the most feared heavy weight of all time,a boxer whose agressiveness and power were only surpassed by his viciousness, even today millions of people continue to log in on youtube just to see his knock outs, he had a deadly combination of speed and power and completely redefined the peek a boo style in boxing,for three years he terrorized the heavy weight divison and ruled it with an iron fist demolishing his opponents without mercy, he is in my opinion Cus d'amato's ultimate creation a deadly machine that put the fear of God in his opponents (and for good reason lol) unfortunately his demonstrated lack of success against opponents who aren't terrified of him makes him difficult to rate. Who's to say whether, say, Joe Frazier would have been afraid of him?  in any case, I'm talking not about The ear biting,dirty talking,post don king,post robin givens mindless thug that we saw in the early nineties and after, but about the Cus D'Amato Tyson, the constantly moving,accurate puncher who didn't stop until the opponent fell. The slower, lazy, don't-mind-being-hit Mike Tyson who was undone by Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield certainly would have been undone by ken norton and joe frazier, but the real Mike Tyson, Cus's perfect synthesis of Liston and Patterson, the humble kid with a lisp that listened to his trainers (rooney and atlas) and trained out of a local gym in Catskill New York was an awesome specimen indeed. I think even an unafraid Holyfield would have been knocked out by this fighter and let us not forget that not only was he and still is the youngest heavyweight champion ever, he was also responsable for the popularity of the sport in the mid eigthies and nineties and generated a lot of interest in the sport with his vicious knock outs.

Answer 15

Putting Tyson ahead of Holmes and Marciano makes me weep for you, my friend.  Holmes fought the BEST out there.  Except for Ruddock, Tyson never knocked out a great prime fighter.  An old, former titlist in BoneCrusher Smith took him to the entire twelve rounds, and actually WON the last couple of them!  

LONG COUNT:  The official "count" is not, actually, held in the hand of the timekeeper.  The referee has sole control over where the count is at.  Yes, Douglas was down for more than ten seconds.  But the referee hadn't made it to ten by the time Douglas got to his feet.  It's not fair, but it's fact.  It's a point that needs to be addressed, because to be fair, Tyson did knock out Douglas that night.  Douglas should have sent that ref a dozen roses a week for life. . . .since he helped him secure the greatest boxing upset of all time!