Mike Tyson(1987)vLennox Lewis(1995),a match up in Tysons prime,will the result be different?

Question

Remember the speed and power of young Mike Tyson(pre crackup/divorce/imprisonment)and the ease at which he put away huge opponents like they were schoolkid amatuers,I do!People are now conveniently forgetting just what agreat fighter Tyson was,it's like he is Sonny Liston re-incarnate,all the bad press and ax'holes to eager to trash a fighter who took on and won the world heavyweight division whilst still not much more than a boy!Mike Tyson's demise was as quick and dramatic as his rise was,with fat bums like Douglas and later lollipops like Lewis(more a circus freak than a boxer)all wanting a piece of a much deteriorated Tyson.Tyson's crime was he wasn't the all American boy,the squeaky clean Leonard or biblebashing Holyfield,Mike was lacking in social graces like Hagler was,and Holmes,Duran etc,so who d'you think would have won in a match when both these fighters were in there primes?

Answer 1

Tyson would have won.  Tyson was an all out fighter whereas Lewis sees himself as a boxer not a fighter.  Tyson had a hunger that most other fighters never had either.

Answer 2

Tyson at his best would beat Lewis.

Answer 3

Untouchable,

I think you see that because we arent "fans" of Mike Tyson, that we are against him. Far from the truth. Mike Tyson during his brief rise was an exciting fighter to watch. No one would ever say that he wasnt captivating during this period.

People have a tendency to victimize Mike Tyson, saying "well, if this hadnt of happened, or that hadnt happened". See, this is where I think you and I have a baseline disagreement of what a champion is. I have two different points Id like to make on this that are relevent to Tyson.

When people judge Ali, or Joe Louis, or Marciano, they dont usually take the small period he rose, they look at his entire career, front to back.  If Ali was only spoken about, in that form, we wouldnt ever talk about his fights with Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, etc. Those all happened past his rise.

Look, here is the bottom truth. A person is both their good and bad habits that they had in life. Tyson was fine so long as he could be managed or controlled. When Rooney could bring him down from the mountain, have him fight, and send him right back up...keeping him from money, keeping him from women, yes he fought great.

BUT, a champion is supposed to stay away from cocaine when they are competing. They are bound to the same laws that we are (rape). These distractions that Mike did, ultimately, is what did him in.

The reasons that Tyson could never defeat real champions, is also the intangible reasons that he could never get his life together. Being a champion means facing adversity and conquering it...both in and out of the ring. Being able to resist the temptations to eat. They say its harder to keep the crown than to get it. Once Tyson got power, the power ate him alive. That was a part of his personality...thats what destroyed him...and kept him from reaching that level.

Did Tyson have the physical talent? Absolutely, yes without a doubt he did. But Tyson didnt have the will to win, to overcome..to sacrifice. When people like Blog bring up the personality out of the ring, it was directly responsible for what he did IN the ring. Lets face it...someone who is eating properly and training constantly is going to do better than a fighter that has all the physical talent in the world but cant get away from women and alcohol....sooner or later its gonna catch up to you.

So instead of focusing on Tysons brief prime, which is always going to be one sided because he fought sub par fighters (Trevor Berbick does not qualify as an all time great, Im sorry no disrespect to him), focus on it as the beginning of what was.

Truthfully, Tysons character could have never allowed him to fight with the greats...he couldnt handle the workload. He survived on the strength of his youth...for awhile. But at some point...it comes down to character and lifestyle. Tysons peak ended at 22 or 23...hardly a point for a decline.

Tyson happened to Tyson, not life. Tyson couldnt handle the pressure...and if thats the case...he could never handle the pressure of fighting someone that could fight him back. Thats why he lost when he was challenged...and always has.

So far as Lennox Lewis, Lewis beat him twice. Once as amateurs (when Tyson was supposedly a physical phenom) and the latter beating.

Thats why Tyson never tried to fight Lennox Lewis in his prime...please remember Tyson was in his physical prime long after his decline. At least six or seven years. Tyson never fought anyone that was a challenge....he couldnt. He could either beat you up...or he avoided you.

Answer 4

There was never a time in Mike Tyson's career that he could have beat Lennox Lewis, in fact guys like Tua, Rockmon, Moorer and McCall would have exposed Mike, which is why Mike never fought them.   The only reason Mike gave Evander the first fight was Holyfield all but went into the tank against Bobby Czyz in the fight prior to the first Tyson fight and looked like a shot fighter.  If Evander didn't carry Czyz so convincingly for as long as he did Mike would have never took the risk.

How a champion carries himself outside the ring is part of what they are remembered for, I disagree with those who claim a champion's behavior outside the ring has no bearing on their historical legacy.  But at least that argument is logically sound and not an opinion, it can be logically discussed and debated.  

Down playing or belittling the accomplishments of other champions, or calling them insulting names like "Fat Bum" or "Lollipop"  cannot change the truth that Lennox Lewis and Buster Douglas crushed Mike Tyson in Mike's "Prime".  Claiming other champions had run ins with the law doesn't excuse Mike's behavior, nor does it somehow elevate Mike historically, it's not even logically sound.    You cannot lower every champion with a legal problem in an effort to somehow make Mike's behavior less damaging to Mike's legacy.  I admire your effort, but it simply doesn't work that way with reality.

Eventually you will have to deal with the truth.  And the truth is Mike Tyson was nowhere near "great" in any respect.  Mike's early management and marketing were spectacular and qualify as great, but Mike as a fighter simply never had it.  Hagler, Holmes and Duran are all time boxing greats, Mike is with all due respect something else, and social grace doesn't enter into the discussion.  Your attempts to make excuses for Mike failed almost as badly as your argument did to elevate him historically above a mediocre heavyweight who hit hard and KOed a string of B rated fighters.

Mike could hit hard, but that wasn't enough to make him a great champion.

Answer 5

Very interesting question.  Tyson 87 vs Lewis 95.  There are a few ways to look at Tyson vs Lewis.  Some argue that their fight was on the level because both are the same age.  It's a proven fact that there are a number of factors in when a fighter reaches his prime and how long it lasts.  Tyson peaked early.  Lewis peaked late.

Young Tyson vs Young Lewis:  There were talks of a Tyson-Lewis fight before Mike went to jail.  Had it happened then I think Tyson would have won by KO before the 5th round.  But Lewis still had much to learn.  He was not so effective at 227lbs.  I dont think Lennox would get far without catching some of Mike's bombs early.  His defense just wasn't very good then.

I think the Lewis who knocked out Rahman or even the one who KO'd Tyson (in real life) would definitely have been a handfull for Young Tyson.  

Everyone knows Mike was not in mental or physical shape for Douglas.  However, if you look at the best fighters Mike did beat, none of them come close to Lewis at his best.  Lennox carried and used his 245lbs very effectively.  He was just too strong for Mike when they did fight.  

One thing I keep in mind.  I witnessed a sparring session between Mike and Oliver McCall when I worked for Atlantic City magazine.  When McCall wasn't on drugs he was certainly a force to be reconed with.  He showed no fear of Mike at all.  Mike routinely abused his sparring partners.  But he could never budge Oliver's psyche.  

The sparring session was actually a bit scary.  They didnt fight long but both had bloody noses and did a lot of damage to each other.  Im sorry I missed the one when Oliver decked Mike.  McCall has never been down in sparring or in an actual fight.  His chin rivals Mike, who has one of the strongest chins in history.    

Mike never faced some of the best fighters of his time.  Its a shame because I believe he would have done well against all of them, including the ones he lost to.  Still he lost.  Most of that had to do with is mental state of mind.

It's a tough call but I think Lewis95 would have found a way to tame Tyson 87.  Bonecrusher Smith and Tucker ''survived'' against young Tyson.  Mike was more of a puncher than Joe Frazier, in terms of power and effectiveness.  However, he didn't "DIG" into big guys the way Joe could.  That's why they survived in fear and won if they showed no fear.

Lennox Lewis was a very smart fighter.  He would have tied Tyson up early.  Some intangibles have to be taken into consideration as well.  Tyson would poll-ax the unprepared Lewis who lost to Rahman.  However, you can bet Lennox would be prepared for Tyson.  People forget Lennox is quite strong.  He's a lot stronger than all the big guys who gave Tyson trouble.  He can do everything Tucker or Smith could do but much better.  

Even at his best, Tyson didnt have the greatest stamina.   He would be winded by the middle rounds from Lewis' constant leaning and mauling.  It's not likely that Mike would land the quick shot inside.  The mature Lewis was much better than his younger counter part.   It wouldn't be a pretty fight to watch at first.  

As Mike slows down, Lennox would begin to land short uppercuts and rights.  It would take a while but he would eventually chip away at Tyson.  It would go longer than 8 as Lewis would fight a very patient fight.  Mike could certainly end it with a few blows.  However, younger Lewis might have fallen prey to the early attack.  Mature Lewis was a much smarter fighter who isn't often given much credit.  His best fighters were actually towards the end of his career.  

Overall, Lewis rose higher than Tyson fell.  Tyson was popular and exciting.  Lewis was quiet and not always exciting.  He did get the job done though.  He also would have beaten Bowe, who was afraid of him.

Answer 6

You seem to be infatuated with a guy that lost his biggest fights? Just because when he won he did it impressively? Why do you dismiss his losses?

Thumbs up cjt...you make a lot of good points!

Answer 7

Untouchable-you seem to buy into the fairytale of Iron Mike.

I do remember Tyson's conquests well. I was a big fan. I wanted him to destroy Holmes. I almost felt sorry for Spinks. (As if anybody couldn't see that as a mismatch before hand).

I remember watching the jab into a uppercut devastation he laid on Jesse Ferguson. I loved that one. And the left hook he landed on Carl the truth Williams.

But you need to be objective in trying to determine a fighters "greatness or lack there of" If you check out Tysons record. The best fighters in their prime that he beat, were Tony Tucker and Razor Ruddock.  Tucker was a good fighter, not great. Mike got a 12rd dec. Ruddock had 2 fights with Mike. The first was stopped prematurely, so there was an immediate rematch. Mike won again by dec. Again best two fighters he beat in their prime...by dec! No devastating Ko's!  

Bottom line is he was exposed by Douglas as Donald Curry was exposed by Lloyd Honeyghan. He was beatable. To make excuses for him like(crack-up/divorce/imprisonment) is just that an excuse for failing!

Weather a good boy or bad boy or lack of social skills, none of it matters. Think of the things Jack Johnson, Joe Louis & Ali had to overcome. Tyson's troubles weren't much in comparison. Champions overcome and win. They don't make excuses, and if they are to lose, they avenge it! Tyson didn't. He failed! His two most infamous fights were Holmes and Spinks. I mentioned Spinks already, he was just to small to have a prayer. Holmes was 38. There is a reason it is referred to as a young mans game! It's much easier to Ko I guy at 38 than 24! I mention 24 because thats how old Tyson was when Douglas Ko'd him. Between 22 and 29 is generally your absolute physically prime yrs. Some last longer. Some talk of Tyson's prime as if it was from 20 to 23. Thats ridiculous! You are just maturing as a man at 23. The truth was, the myth of iron Mike was just that, a myth!

As far as the pairing of these two fighters. Lennox Lewwis was Ko'd by two inferior fighters. Thats not to say he wasn't a great fighter. I think he was. Although he didn't have a great chin. He owns wins over Holyfield, thats more than Tyson could say. I believe his jab would dictate Tyson's destruction similar to Douglas. I would definately go with Lenox by Ko in a fight that would be much like Douglas's.

Tyson would have a punchers chance, due to Lewis's inferior chin.

**** the political issues of Louis, Johnson & Ali Don't have anything to do with anything! The point is they or their fans didn't make excuses for losses! Tyson's DO! ***ex-(pre crack up/divorce/imprisonment) or my favorite "mike didn't train for Douglas" as if that excuses his loss! Champios are responsible!

As far as the generational thing. I grew up with Tyson. I boxed in the mid 80's in my late teens. I LOVED the way he ducked punches by sliding side to side, then countering. It was brilliant. I have a similar build to him and d**n I wish I could do that!!! But he got KO'd in his biggest fights!!! Why the adulation?? How do you consider him an "alltime great when he got KO'd by inferior talent at 24!! and then got KO'd against superior talent that was older than him?

ACEMAN's- not in the top 50 makes more sense than putting Tyson in your top ten when you consider it objectively!

Mike crushed the Junior Varsity, then got Ko'd by the Varsity squad. Yet you want to call him "great"? and you think ACE, blog, John H & myself are generationally biased????

Answer 8

sit down and get comfortable, bec i got a lot to say here......aiiiiight, enough of the tyson bashing. it is high time we all took a long sober, unemotional look at tyson's career w/o the polarizing passion that divides those who love/hate him, more than evidence warrants.  as the self-proclaimed "biggest tyson fan on this website," i include myself in this assessment.  nonetheless, and 1st of all, tyson had to EARN the reputation that frightened those "bums" as ppl call them...that was where his talent was. remember, he was small for a heavyweight, but he was faster and had better skills than anyone he'd fought in his prime. he had pinpoint accuracy and turned a punch better than anyone since joe louis(another small fighter - who actually fought under 200 lbs!). as for the so-called bums and tomato cans and florists that one fella referred to, ETC., tyson was groomed the same exact way every great fighter is brought along. match them w/fighters you know they can beat and expose them to different styles so they can gain experience until they gain the confidence to chase and achieve greatness. remember, spinks was the cream of the then crop, and in his prime, when tyson flattened him in one round! tru dat he(spinks) was not one of the all-time great heavyweights, but he was a credible heavyweight, more clever and tricky than powerful, but good enough to whup holmes....but obviously not clever enough as the spinks-jinx failed him that night against tyson and he never fought again.

it is important to go back and actually view his old fights(which i have done), now that there is much time and distance from them. from the very first fight he fought, after d'amato died, you could see mike didn't have the quite the same steam. attribute this to his period of mourning, but the fact remains, the young, prime 19 yr old wonder kid who would deliver  body attacks and 4-5 punch combinations, every blow landing and lethal, was nothing like the one punch ko fighter of his mid-later career. his training habits suffered and his legacy became tarnished bec of it. the fighter that that young fast razor sharp and finely tuned machine, had he been allowed to blossom and mature...that's the guy all of us remember, rant, and rave about. he was truly something to see. and no one, not holyfield, lewis, bowe, mercer, morrison, cooney, williams, mcbride, moorer, foreman, douglas, page, dokes, etc. would have stood a chance against him.

still, once i saw the douglas fight again, recently, tyson looked better than i'd remembered in rds 7 & 8, then ran outta steam. no matter what some of you say, to take the pouding that tyso took for 10 rds from a plus-220 man like douglas was, shows a helluva chin on mike.  then, in the 2nd holyfield fight, iron mike actually won that 3rd rd unanimously until the pts were taken away for the ear biting incident and the eventual disqualification. this hints that cus' voice and training were still in there somewhere....just wish that that voice had been able to rise above the other voices in tyson's head that led to his downfall. what a great fighter he was, what a legendary fighter he could have become!

finally, as i've asked before, does anyone in their right mind think that tyson would have ever lost to dempsey, tunney, walcot, charles, patterson, baer, sharkey, corbett, carnera, fitsimmons, archie moore, ellis, klitchko(either one), or norton? now, does anyone think tyson didn't at least have a chance to beat louis(much smaller than he), marciano(much smaller than he), liston(too slow), or frazier(much smaller than he)? if you answer honestly, that alone makes tyson one of the greats! the list leaves only ALI, jack johnson, and foreman as fighters who would definitely give tyson his hands full of opposition...and i like his chances w/the latter two, on paper...that makes him one of the all-time greats! now, no doubt a trainer makes all the difference...imagine ali/leonard w/o dundee; bowe w/o futch, and glass jaw lewis w/o steward.  tyson had the misfortune of losing his guiding light too early and so his career and legacy sufferered as a result. pls don't discount the importance of d'amato's passing.  had emmaunel steward joined team-tyson, imagine what HE could have accomplished.  was there ever a heavyweight more perfect for steward's type of expertise?  in my view, tyson knocks the geri-curl/dreadlock juice out of lewis' head easily!  and then all of you would have called lewis a bum as well...and that makes all the difference!  now, let's hear from the other side!~

Answer 9

TYSON vLEWIS ,A TOTAL FARCE FROM CONCEPTION TO END.............................