Monty Roberts instructor uses a light rope halter under the lip to prevent bucking??

Question

Has anyone used this successfully or heard of it. It sounds like cheating to me. The horse is only supposed to feel pain if he puts his head down to buck. Made of fine cord and worn over the bridle then tied to the saddle horn. Seems to me it is like puttting blinders on a horse or cow kickers on a cow. If you forget to use it the behavior will still be there. I am going to pass on using it. It reminds me of a twitch or war bridle. The same idea.

Answer 1

Frankly, I think that Monty Roberts could use one of those under his lip to prevent his lies...seriously, just because he as prefabricated somewhat, the way that he learned his methods, they are pretty sound methods and should not be poopooed just because you don't like his ethics, which I personally don't.  all the lip chain/rope does it get the horse's mind on the rope, off of bucking, just like a twitch...you can make it as mild or as severe as you need to. If it is nothing but a rope halter secured to the saddle horn, then I've done that too...you have to tie it pretty tight, because if they decide to buck, they will find the slack or stretch the rope... Frankly, once you have been bucked off, pissed on and run over as many times as I have, and probably most of you have been, you will use pretty much anything that works...so...don't judge the messenger, just evaluate the message, and to me, it should work.

Answer 2

I have to agree with you on this assessment about lip chains and twitches. From what I am learning from Pat Parelli, whom I admire greatly, in his methods of assessing the horseanality of each individual horse, I commend you for passing on that method.

Having a horse become more fearful with pain is not an appropriate method, in my opinion as well as what I am gleaning from your question.  We need to partner with our horses. Also you may not know the history of how this horse was trained and what is frightening him enough to buck like that.

I am not a horse trainer by any means, but it seems to me that finding out the reason for the bucking is the first step. But I have had a few horses in my day, and adore and respect them highly. Patience persistance seems to be the way to go.

As far as chains, and other cruel practices which I am sure only makes a horse more fearful, I found two references that may be helpful here.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Horses-702/Ma...

http://www.gaitedhorses.net/AskTheTraine...

Hope this helps some, and again, I commend your for your fine assessment above. Always find the reason and then work with the horse to unlearn bad behaviors in a supportive and compassionate manner. I so respect Pat and Linda Parelli. Wish they had been around when I had a "problem" horse.

Troublesniffer

Passionate about Horses

Answer 3

Well...  I've used a lip chain for decades on horses that have been spoiled and it works on mannering them on the ground, so I imagine that would work as well once under saddle.  Interesting concept!

Answer 4

Native Americans rode horses using only this position of a rope...we all think they were masters of horsemanship, and it's ok when they did it. It engages when the horse bucks...why is that bad?  If that's cheating, what isn't?

Add to respond to Buffy.......yes, it is just that, but not for the severe bucking horse.  It is meant to stop the buck...not train every aspect of what the horse learns.  It is no different than any means used to stop a buck., and is as humane as any...what alternative methods are you comparing to this one that effectively stops the buck, which must be done swiftly and effectively by whatever method is employed?  This is exactly what prevents the development of a severe bucking problem in a horse that already bucks.  And what evidence do you have that this would "never work"?  It is combined into training...not used alone.

This is precisely the kind of method that does work.  Not to complete training..just to stop a buck swiftly.

Answer 5

it reminds me of a lip chain and i know for a fact lip chains work very effectively as we have to use on on my gelding to clip him.

so i think it is actually a nice concept.

no the behavior wont still be there because they wont want to put their head down in fear of pain...

Answer 6

ive seen monty roberts use this at a demonstration and it seemed to be effective and i dont think it is cruel it doesnt stop the horse bucking it just teaches it that its uncomfortable when it bucks

Answer 7

I would say this is a last resort only to be used on a horse that's got a severe bucking problem.  It's probably not used exclusively, it's used with other "normal' means of controlling the horse.

This mechanism on it's own would never work because as soon as it is gone, the horse can buck again.  But used in conjunction with other training, the horse could benefit from it and then eventually it will go away.

I've seen a few horses who could put up a buck so fast you didn't know what hit ya without so much as a notice they're going to do it- and some even without their heads too far down.

This tool is only meant to stop the buck, not teach a horse anything - stop the buck to allow training to take place.  Head goes down, hits a bit of pain, pops back up before you're tossed and you now have the ability to school the buck out.  Kinda like grabbing a kid by the arm to get their attention - it might hurt and done incorrectly and inconsistently could be termed abuse - but used correctly and consistently will soon not be necessary.

Twitches aren't really bad either.  The most sensitive part of a horse's body is his upper lip.  A twitch properly used simply soncentrates the attention and pain receptors to a place where it can be controlled to disallow inaccurate responses to perceived oncoming pain.  More often than not they are used in-humanely though which is a shame.

Answer 8

Nope - it does not sound "natural".

It does sound more severe than an anti grazing strap used on chubby ponies , which also stops the head from going down low enough to buck...But both could make some horses rear...

Sounds like another "amazing" invention designed to make a self proclaimed great horse trainer more $$$

Like the "carrot stick" ... which is basically a longe whip...