Muay Thai weaknesses as a striking martial art?

Question

PUTTING THE LACK OF GROUND GAME & SUBMISSIONS ASIDE, as a pure striking martial art, does Muay Thai have any weaknesses? Are there any weak techniques in its arsenal? Is there another striking martial art that could match or possibly be better than Muay Thai? It's obvious that most MMA practitioners favor MT over other striking disciplines, why so?

Answer 1

I am a practitioner of Muay Thai. There are essentially no weaknesses to ANY style, only the understanding by the practitioner.

The reason that MT is the preferred striking art form of MMA is because it is simple! It essentially has only 7 different techniques and this compared to the thousands of techniques of more traditional arts is self explanatory :easier to "perfect" 7 than 1000.

But a closer look at different striking arts sees that most styles are almost the same; it is the actual student/fighter that is different. I Thailand, most fighters fight to put food in their bellies, so its a case of "do or die". The competition is alot harder because of this. Also most of the fighters are teenagers or young adults. You never really see an "old" Muay Thai fighter. That's because they destroy themselves in combat to the point that they cannot practice ANY exercise ever again. That is not the point of Martial study. I believe we need to study MA to help us in life's journey.

But this sheer display of total brutality in combat is only popular because of the world's knowledge of it in MT. However, there are much worse/better styles that display this kind of striking/fighting. The Philippines styles of combat also display this kind of brutality, that is known to most. They used weapons as well in their combat besides strikes, so this is not viable to MMA sport fighting. Likewise, any technique that is regaurded as "lethal" is not allowed in MMA sport. And for good reason. So the most "effective" brutal striking style would have to MT because it is also a sportt style, unlike its embryo Martial Art; Muay Boran.

What is also interesting is that there has been an on-going war between Muay Thai and Kung Fu since its earliest days.  And the facts state that Mauy Thai has actually fallen from grace against San Shou/Da (the combat side of Kung Fu). In the begining MT dominated over both KF and Kyukushi Karate (full contact Karate) because of its "unorthodox" use of knees and elbows in competition. While other styles had them in their arsenal, they never used them in competition, and definately not to the extent that MT has. But once everyone started to catch on to the idea of incorporarting them into their sporting aresenal, it evened out the playing fields a bit.

So right now its not about which style is better than the other but rather which rules of the game you like better and which techniques are better suited for those rules.

The only weakness that MT has is its lack of real life or proper self defense techniques. It has evolved almost completely for sport use and no matter how much modern day MMA guys argue the point, MMA is a SPORT and is designed for one-on-one confrontation. The same applies to MT.

To answer the question above it is essential to understand that no art/style has weak techniques, only practitioners who can be weak at certain techniques.

Answer 2

It's weaknesses are that its core relies on kicks/knees. In MMA 9 out of 10 opponents are going to have wrestling backgrounds and have you ever tried kneeing someone while on your back? Not very effective.

You want a striking set that is better than Muay Thai? Simple...boxing.

How many fights have you seen finished with a kick? Real fights mind you, not Jean Claude or Seagall mincing around crane kicking everyone in sight. I can think of only a handful.

Now how many fights have you seen stopped by fists? Just about a good 75 to 85% of MMA matches end from good old fashioned punching.

Sure it's not an exotic martial art, but effective accurate and powerful punching is the stuff of champions. Anyone who says different obviously hasn't heard of Anderson Silva or Chuck Liddell.

Answer 3

Muay Thai has a great flow to it, and is has a great arsenal, limited by the practioner.  Muay Thai is called the science of 8 limbs, because, all limbs are used in the fight, again, the limit is the strategy of the striker.

Like all fighting styles MT is really dependent on the practioner and the determination with which training is done, one can have great strikes, but in sport MT, you have to be able to last for rounds.

MT is what it is, the oucome of the fight depends on the fighters.

Answer 4

From a self-defense standpoint it does not offer a multitude of open-handed striking techniques to the facial area and eyes.  Such techniques can be effective when wrestling and grappling with your opponent to give you more of a chance especially if you are smaller and weaker.  Everyone has poked themselves in the eye at one time or another and just imagine now if I was striking directly into your eye with my finger tips grouped around my thumb for strength and support.  Such techniques are not allowed in the UFC for good reason but yet are taught in many forms of karate and most people can not take a shot like that directly into their eye and not be temporarily blinded and distracted by the pain for a short period of time.  Still Muay Thai is a good martial art in that stresses the use of knees and elbows as well as low kicks which allows fighters to more easily keep their balance, retract their kicking leg and get it back on the ground so that they can more easily and quickly follow up and continue to press the attack.  That along with using knees and elbows for close in standup fighting allows fighters to fight at various ranges and so that is one of the reasons why it is so favored.

Answer 5

MUAY THAI STRENGTHS (in a nutshell):

Muay thai training is excellent physical conditioning.

Muay thai techniques are simple (simpler techniques are more effective under pressure)

Muay thai techniques are honed and refined through competion.  You practice landing techniques against an agressive, non-cooperative opponent every time in training.  

You can be a relatively experienced fighter after only 6 months of training.

MUAY THAI WEAKNESSES:

Less effective as a martial art if you're not very strong or fast, but still more effective than a non-competition based martial art for said weak person.

Becomes less effective as you get older and slower.

If you're injured, sick or travel and stop training for a year, it can be difficult to get your conditioning back to its original level, especially if you're past 30-35 years old.

Muay thai contests do not require ground-fighting skills, but most other mma contests do.  Most people I know who train muay thai or "nhb striking" combine it with grappling/brazillian ju-jutsu.

Are there any styles that could match muay thai?

Muay thai is simply how the human body moves in a given set of conditions.  

The rules of the competition directly shape the most effective techniques under those rules.

The rules of MT competition cause the style to evolve the most efffective techniques allowable under muay thai rules.

The rules of Judo competition cause the style to evolve the most effective techniues allowable under Judo rules.

What is the biggest difference between Judo and Brazillian ju-jitsu?  The rules of the contest.

Judo (not ju-jutsu) was transplanted to Brazil.  The rules of scoring point in competition were changed, and as a result the techniques evolved, shaped by competition, to the ones proven most effective at scoring points, and winning, under the new rules of competition.  The rules of Brazillian ju-jitsu more closely resemble a "no-rules" scenario than the rules of judo do.  But an experienced judo competitor is still more effective in the street than a dojp trained "traditional" martial artist who has never experienced a real, non-cooperative "opponent".

Back to Muay Thai;  it's not based on the ancient teachings of great warriors of ages past, it's based on the living experience of punchers and kickers who test themselves realistically every time they train.  It's proven every year in competition which techniques are most effective under pressure, full-speed, full power, (under the rules of Muay Thai  competition).  Any style such as NHB or Kyoku-shin kai that follows similar rules is going to evolve similar, if not identical techniques.

Answer 6

Muay Thai is an excellent striking art, but I think the main reason it is one of the most prevelant in the UFC is because it does not take as long to become proficiant at as many traditional striking arts. If somebody wants to compete in MMA they are going to want the fastest way to get up to speed possible.

If you watch a good traditional Okinawin karate person when they fight it will look a lot like a Muay Thai fighter, with the exception of standing grappling thrown in. I think Muay Thai's main drawback is that there are many legitimate targets in self defense that they do not train to strike, and that they do not train to defend. Yes it is hit or miss whether the groin shot will end a fight, a lot depends on the person, but it is not as hard to land a solid strike there as most of the preponents of MMA seem to think.

I think part of this is I never see any kicks in MMA cometition, or rarely, that strike with the ball of the foot. Yes a shin kick is hard to deliver to the groin, but a ball of foot kick fits much nicer from many angles.

So it's main weakness in my opinion would be ruling out legitimate target area's for self defense.

Answer 7

Frank the Tank has this one nailed.

The answer is simple.

Muay Thai's weakness is it lacks good hands. The punches and punch defenses in Muay Thai are lacking. Due to it having to defend a wider array of strikes, it usually lacks in punching, as elbows, clinches, and knees are usually used in punching range, everything else is usually done at kicking range. So by large and large, less pure punching defense and less pure punching.

They don't necessarily have any weak techniques, due to the fact that it is tested and formed in hard competetion. They focus on low kicks, teeps, and the like, which are all pretty useful in a striking aspect. Some of the kicks don't lend themselves well to a MMA or full range combat since they set you up for grappling, but generally they aren't weak.

Plenty of other Arts can match Muay Thai, especially those that train to that extent, and fight regularly. San Shou, Kickboxers, Savate practioners, boxers, some full contact karate. It all depends. A lot can match it.

MMA Practioners use it because it is successful at what it does. It gives good long range, and close range strikes. Keep in mind they don't use it OVER other striking disciplines, as most MMA fighters also box, as well as practice Muay Thai or kickboxing. They use it ALONG with other striking arts.

I disagree with Katana on these things, simply because MMA practioners use what is effective. Not because it is easier or quicker to learn. You become effective at it quicker, because it is heavily based in sparring and alive training. It's practical effectiveness is self evident.

A Thai Fighter has knocked people out, not stood in a stance, kiai'ed punching the air, and mentioning that this blow would knock someone out. They have actually done it.

It is effective because it has been proven to be effective, not theorized.

There are plenty of other people who use a variety of striking arts. Lyoto Machida still uses a vast array of Karate techniques (keep in mind he also trains in Muay Thai), plenty of people use just boxing or plain kickboxing.

Muay Thai is effective and effective because aside from small technique tweaks it is heavily sparred a primary means of training. It's kicks, elbows, knees, and clinch work, all are very good to have in MMA, you combine boxing, and some stand up grappling such as Judo and wrestling, and you have a pretty complete uptop game.

I would just say that Muay Thai is rarely the ONLY striking that a MMA fighter learns. It is usually part of a combination of disciplines, including boxing, karate, kickboxing, Tae Kwon Do and Savate style kicks, Jeet Kune Do concepts, etc.

MMA fighters tend to favor a boxing and Muay Thai combination. Because it gives them good punching, good defense, good footwork and angle work, along with elbows, knees, clinch work, and low risk outside kicks, and kicking in general, as well as defense to those moves.

Hope that makes some sense, it isn't that Muay Thai isn't without it's weaknesses, it is just that it fills a lot of holes at once, and when used in conjunction with boxing, equals a pretty solid striking game.

Answer 8

As a sport fighting art, Muay Thai is one of the most effective striking arts primarily because they keep it simple and do ALOT of hard sparring.

The main weakness I see, aside from the lack of grappling, is that Muay Thai assumes you are wearing boxing gloves so they don't train any open hand techniques that would be better suited for the street.

For example if you punch someone in the head with thick boxing gloves on, you might knock them out or atleast down without doing any damage to your hand.  In the street without boxing gloves on, you might still knock them out or down, but likely will hurt your hand.  Many open hand karate techniques like palm, chops, etc. would be safer for the street.

Answer 9

Muay Thai is a very well rounded striking art, but no art is without its weaknesses.

Strengths: MT fighters train to use extensive use of knees and elbows (which are among the two hardest hitting strikes). Elbows really open up cuts and are brutal. Kicks with the shin are extremely practical, and they hurt. The Muay Thai clinch is the bread and butter of the style, in my opinion.

You can become proficient in Muay Thai under a good instructor in about six months to a year.

Conditioning is also a plus. You have to be in shape to do Muay Thai.

Muay Thai does teach throws and sweeps to a degree.

Weaknesses: This style is very hard on the body.

The older you get, the harder it is to take a beating.

Muay Thai is a sport, a bloodsport, but it doesn't really teach much for self defense such as defense against weapons, multiple opponents, etc.

With any kicking art, when you do a kick, you are off-balance. If you are attempting a kick, and you get hit by a power punch, you're going down.

Boxers have the best hands, no question. But, MT has more tools to offer. Of course, A MT kickboxer who trains in boxing will be better prepared, but with the arsenal of kicks, knees, elbows and clinch work, I don't think it's as important.

You could argue that Kyokushin or Sanda are as effective as Muay Thai.

Muay Thai is a very balanced style with brutal offensive techinques and good clinch work that meshes well with MMA. That's why MMA stylists train in it.

Answer 10

it appears some ppl dont understand what you are asking after all you do mention lack of ground game and submissions.The main weakness of muay thai is its lack of defensive techniques,instead they rely on the fact that there trained to take and give punishment.boxing and some forms of karate can match the punches in muay thai for power but are better because they also use defensive techniques rather than relying on just pure "punch through" power.and the kicks(not in boxing)are the same.adding other styles to MT so as to do mma or ufc adds the defensive techniques(and other techniques obviously)that MT lacks.

the reason mma and ufc practioners favor mt is because it doesn't take long to attain a reasonable level of skill,but if you put one of them in a ring with someone who is a MT fighter under MT rules they would get there asss handed to them on a plate.

All martial arts have weak points and strong points.

Answer 11

A muay thai expert would most likely get alot of punishment from a good boxer, as far as punching goes.

The muay thai stand is designed to be able to counter kicks and punches, but since most muay thai fighters have their hands a bit further from their body in order to block kicks, they are vulnerable to uppercuts from a good puncher like boxers.

Muay thai is a very effective striking art, and when you cross-train in Westen boxing, it becomes more complete.

Answer 12

I'd say people favour it because it has a certain number of basic, but efficient moves to learn that suit MMA, where as the old styles of traditional martial arts such as  Kung Fu (like Snake or Crane )would be less so. A draw back would probably be a lack of counter attacks and generally just "taking the hit" rather than getting out of the way.  The fitness regime in getting ready to become a Muai Thai fighter will in itself help you to become a better fighter, as some other martial arts focus less on physical prowess and more on technique

Answer 13

everyone thinks Muay Thai is the ultimate yet I have lived in Asia for over 5 years. Muay Thai fighters get wrecked by China's San SHou team The tournament was embarrassing, China domnated Thailand sorry to brake everyones heart over this

Answer 14

all other striking arts have more weaknesses :)