Music Theory Question?

Question

if i am writing a song using the notes in c major how do i know that its not in a minor? and when someone says a riff is in a minor but it has certain notes that are not in the a minor scale but are played in a chromatic sequence, how do i know its in a minor? when three or four consecutive notes appear does that mean its not in any scale?

Answer 1

It's hard to explain theory questions in short and concise answers and still have it make sense, so be prepared for a long answer!  People go to college for years to learn this stuff! LOL

Well, the same notes are used in C major and A minor... they have the same key signature (no sharps and flats), you just start on different notes.  Remember though, that there are 3 kinds of minors...

Natural minor uses all the same notes as its relative major (so A minor- A B C D E F G A)

Harmonic minor uses the same notes, but raises the 7th by a half step (A B C D E F G# A)

Melodic minor raises the 6th and 7th by a half step going up, and makes them naturals on the way down (A B C D E F# G# A - A G F E D C B A)

So if you are in the key of C major, think of the scale, then stack 3rds on each note- and stick to the key signature... this gives you a specific mix of chords.

I - C E G  (major)

ii - D F A  (minor)

iii- E G B  (minor)

IV - F A C  (major)

V - G B D  (major)

vi - A C E  (minor)

viio - B D F  (diminished)

A major chord has a major 3rd (four half steps) between the root note and the 3rd of the chord, and a minor third (3 half steps) between the 3rd and 5th of the chord.

A minor chord has a minor 3rd between the root and 3rd, and a major 3rd between the 3rd and 5th.

A diminished chord has two minor thirds stacked.

So in C Major, you still have minor chords that occur naturally.

I hope this makes sense?

Now, just because you use some of the minor chords, it does not mean you are in a minor key... but that is the beauty about relative minors... if you want to change key, it is easy to do BECAUSE they share the same notes.  However, the chord structure for A minor is a bit different...

i - ACE

iio - BDF

III - CEG

iv - DFA

v - EGB (it is customary to change this to a major- EG#B)

VI - FAC

VII - GBD (to make this a leading tone, usually you change the G to a G#... making this a diminished chord).

You want to make sure that if you are in C major, and want to STAY in C major, that you are using V to I and viio to I... the V to I gives you great tonality, and sets the pitch in the listener's ear... If you start your piece on a I chord (CEG), it sets that tonality.  Now, using your viio to I, it gives you tension and your ear WANTS it to resolve back to I... even people NOT trained in music can "hear" the resolution before it's actually played... this sets your tonality as well.  Ending phrases on the I chord helps to set the C major tonality.

If you are starting on A (of ACE), you will set the tone for a minor piece.  The reason G is usually raised to G# is to 1) give you the tension in the viio to I, and 2) to give you the tonality by making the v into a V.  G# is the leading tone to A... the raised 7th gives you many more possibilities for chordal movement (which I WON'T get into in this answer).

Now as far as your "riff" part of the question...

There are notes NOT found in the scales or key signatures that can be used... but usually they go by quickly and do not land on a strong beat.  They are called passing tones (PT).  If a note NOT in the key happens to land on a strong beat (usually it won't be the first beat of a measure though), and is sustained (even for a short period), it's called a non-chord tone (NCT).  Neither a PT or a NCT is taken into account when deciding the tonality of a specific chord.

Runs and riffs generally do not lend themselves to the tonality of the piece... that is set up by the chords that accompany them.  However, starting the run on the tonic (in C major, it would be C), and especially if you start it on a strong beat, helps it to sound "in the key"... another thing to do is aim for the tonic to be your ENDING note in the run.  Get to that note using the leading tone (in C major that is B... half step lower than tonic), or use the second (D)... both sound like they WANT to resolve and helps give you a sense of tonality for C major.

If you are playing a chordal instrument (like guitar or piano), setting the tonality is easier.  If you play something like sax or flute or trumpet- and especially if you sing!... it takes a little bit of work to make sure you portray the right key.  It is a great exercise though... try playing each scale degree as chords, but obviously make them arpeggios... CEGEC, DFAFD, etc...

once you get good at playing arpeggios, try making up melodies over specific chords and see if you can hear the tonality... it is hard, but is the basis for jazz... and pop music.

Hope this helped and made sense... theory questions are always hard to explain online!  LOL

Have fun!

Answer 2

if i am writing a song using the notes in c major how do i know that its not in a minor?

- It depends on what the tonic is - if the harmonic progression draws towards C, it's Cmajor, if to A it's Aminor, if to F it's F lydian, if to E it's E phrygian etc.

Try playing these chord progressions:

1, C - F - G

2, Am - G - F

3, Fmaj7 - Cmaj7

4, Am - D

...

What is the tonic in these four progressions?? All use the notes of C major, but each of the four is a different mode. The first one is a typical C-ionian progression, the second is A aeolian, the third is F lydian and the last one is A dorian.

So what are the modes?? Modes are scales built on the major scale, but moving tonic (in our case it's C) to a different degree of the major scale (A, E, F...etc). There are seven notes in a major scale, so logically there are also seven modes.

1, ionian - CDEFGABC - T:2M:3M:4:5:6M:7M - half-steps at 3/4 and 7/8

2, dorian - DEFGABCD (ok you get the pattern) - T:2M:3m:4:5:6M:7m

3, phrygian - T:2m:3m:4:5:6m:7m

4, lydian - T:2M:3M:4+:5:6M:7M

5, mixolydian - T:2M:3M:4:5:6M:7m

6, aeolian - T:2M:3m:4:5:6m:7m

7, locrian - T:2m:3m:4:5-:6m:7m

Ionian is the major scale you know, it's just another name for it, aeolian is natural minor scale. Ionian, lydian and mixolydian are major scales (3M), so you can use the latter two as a substitute for ionian to make it sound more interesting.

Lydian sounds dreamy and mystical, it is often used by Steve Vai and there is lots of lydian on Discovery Channel.

Mixolydian sounds a bit bluesy because of that 7m interval, the same interval used in dominant seventh chords, which are the backbone of blues.

Lydian vs. ionian!

Compare the dreamy sound of Fmaj7-Cmaj7 to Fmaj7-Bb.

Aeolian, dorian and phrygian are minor scales (3m), so you can use the latter two instead of aeolian. Dorian has a more cheerful, funky sound, whilst phrygian sounds like the music of Spain.

Dorian vs. aeolian!

Compare the Am-D progression from Pink Floyd's Breathe to the aeolian Am-Dm progression.

Locrian mode is diminished. Since the tonic itself is too dissonant it's used very rarely. Though, could work well in thrash metal.

As for the chromatic sequence, this is most probably just a bunch of passing notes. Ladies have explained it pretty much to detail so there is no need to say that again. In other cases you can occasionally (with the knowledge of the rules) use a chord in your progression outside the scale. SO you could have for instance:

(key of C)

4/4: Cmaj7//Am7....Em7-A7//Dm7//C#7...G7//

Measures 1 and 3 are clear. Measure 2: Am7 for two beats, then single-beat Em7 and right to A7. A7 is chromatic and this move is calle secondary dominant (to Dm7 which follows), so this chord is just passing here and resolves strongly to Dm7 which follows. C#7 is the last bar is a tritone relative to G7, which is another move that works. After G7 you have two options:

1, back to Cmajor

2, switch to Cminor since G7 allows both.

OK I think this should keep you busy for a while. Good luck.

Answer 3

This question is a bit vague.

When you say, "Using the notes in c major", what do you mean?  Do you mean you're using all the notes, CDEFGABC?

If you are, in fact, using all of those notes, you know it isn't minor because you should have a chord progression in the background that is major that the notes fit into.  If you just play the scale all the way up the piano, it could be mistaken as its simple relative melodic (ancient) minor scale, which would be A minor.  However, most songs written in minor keys have the leading seventh tone raised, and sometimes the raised sixth as well, depending on if the scale is harmonic or melodic minor.  In the case of A minor, the leading tone that makes it exclusive of C major would be the G sharp.  The raised sixth, exclusive to the melodic minor scale, would be the F sharp.  Does that make sense?

You know that the riff is in a minor key because the majority of the progression is minor.  The notes played in a chromatic sequence could be for harmonic interest, or they could be passing tones.  In the case of a chromatic sequence it would probably be a bunch of passing tones to lead into the next chord, movement, or idea in the piece.

Like I indicated, the three or four consecutive notes would be in a scale, but it would depend wholly on the song they are in.  In other words, if you played a C major, F major, G major, C major progression (C Major: I, IV, V, I), and had a few adjacent consecutive notes like you described, it would be in C major because the song itself is in C major.

Hopefully this provided enough clarification.  Good luck.