My 6 yr old son was recently diagnosed with a Pragmatic Learning Disability -.....?

Question

he also has ADHD and has an IQ of 129 which is in the Gifted range, at the beggining of the school year-1st grade- i had him tested for learning disabilities at the school and tried to get him services through CSE but his scores were all Very serperior -sp except for his verbal resoning which was average but 36 points below his perceptional reasoning.. I thought he might have Asperger's nad had him tested at Strong-they found that he had a pragmatic learning disability-it just looks like Asperger's . he keeps getting disciplined at school for not doing his work and i think it is due to his diability-so i am going to try to get him services again

anyone know the laws about this, or had any experience with this?

thank you

Answer 1

Please go to this message board for help, it is the best I know of on the internet for this type of help, and I've been going thru thigns with schools for 8 years.

http://millermom.proboards107.com/index....

You have a right to request  IN WRITING an 'independent educational evaluation by public expense as specified by IDEA law because I disagree with the districts evaluation'.

You have to use these exact words.

The school will pay for another evaluation and YOU choose the doctor. THe results will be unbiased toward the school.

Schools evals are not thourough and on top of this, they are 'rigged' most times to show the child does not qualify.

When the new eval is done the school will use it to determine if child qualifies for special ed, even if they have already said 'no'.

Answer 2

You should not have requested tests for learning disabilities.  What you need is a Comrehensive Evaluation.  It would look at a various issues.  Remember schools can ONLY provide services for catagories recognized in your state.  Medical diagnosis does not always mean school services and LACK of medical diagnosis is some areas does not mean the student cannot get services.

If you ask for too specific testing - they are bound to provide it when perhaps something more global might have gotten to the core of the problem.

So now lets talk ADHD - do you have a medical diagnosis from a Physician?  That is needed to consider services in that category.  If he does have an outsied diagnosis - what treatment protocals are you using at home? Medication, diet, excercise, ???????

Then the school needs to determine the impact on 'education'.  So if your student is getting B's for example and his IQ might suggest that A is possible - not an issue.  If however he is failing, and his IQ suggests an A is possible then that would be an educational need.

A good evaluation will also provide and define - what are the students needs and how can that students needs be met.  Perhaps with accomodations, perhaps with a quiter spot for tests, perhaps with more direct instruction.

So what is Pragmatics - it is how you use or apply the knowledge you have.  

Hopefully some of what I've given you will help you figure out what your next step is.  Remember all states are somewhat different and what works or is defined in one state may not be how it works in another.

Good luck.

Answer 3

sorry dear --no idea but still you can call on higher authorities going in to legalities my not help you . it will be better if you try to persuade them legal options should be the last step not the next

Answer 4

Pragmatics affects the ability to apply the knowledge you learn. In other words, you may know the way to do something in theory, but actually doing it is a whole different ballgame. Were his scores low in sequencing & coding as well?

You're right -- kids with Aspergers have this problem. You could probably get some tips from books for Aspergers & non-verbal learning disabilities. Search pragmatics, semantics, expressive & receptive language delays. You should be able to find some books & websites that will help figure out what to ask for.

As for services, try to get an IEP with that listed under communication & other categories. A 504 plan is okay, but schools aren't legally liable to follow them, so the IEP is better. This will affect his ability to learn (and he will be really frustrated because he's SMART but unable to get things done -- which will lead to some teachers giving him a hard time).

Your son will need help with pragmatics, which is taught by the speech/language person. There are tests (CELF is the one that comes to mind, but there's also an executive function test) they can administer & you should request that testing in writing, if they haven't already done it.

Basically, the scores on WISC should be no more than 1-2 points difference in the subcategories. If he's way off the mark on some tests, that shows he needs services to bring those scores up. A child is supposed to learn at their fullest potential. Your son obviously has some good strengths, which he's probably using to compensate for his struggles. But what's going to happen is when he hits 3rd or 4th grade, when higher thinking comes into play -- he's going to really struggle. Especially if he doesn't get services to teach him strategies & work on his pragmatics. (My son is 13, IQ 131 w/huge gaps in the verbal areas,  so I know this for a fact.)

Answer 5

Quite a few parents who have children like yours opt out and homeschool their children.   That way they can advance at their own rate and do not suffer any frustration by not fitting in with the herd or developing any self image problems because he is different.  You can preserve his sense of self worth and accelerate his learning if you are willing and able to just do it yourself.

Answer 6

First of all ...please tell me what Pragmatic means?  In our school system....we only diagnose learning disabilities as SPECIFIC.  Secondly, if has an IQ of 129...then  how can he have a learning disability?  I would think that he couldnt have a learning disability........his IQ is too high.  And he has been diagnosed with ADHD?  IF he can not be entitled to an IEP (Individual Education Plan) then he should by all means be entitled to a 504 plan.  This would give him accomodations that he may need...........LEGALLY: such as, taking breaks during tests and assignments, taking tests in minimal distraction sites, allowing extra time for assignments.  I don't see how they can discipline him for his diagnosis!!  You are the parent...and have every right to stand up for your child....you can email me if you want to talk further about this.

Answer 7

You may want to take your son to a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP).  There are many tests that can decipher which disorder he may have.  Though he is experiencing certain symptoms of one disorder, he may have characteristics of other.  There is Pragmatic disorder, Sematics disorders, and Pragmatic-Semantic disorder.  Along with Asperger's Syndrome these disorders display similar, similarities.  Usually those that may have Semantic-Pragmatic disorder are 'misdiagnosed' with Asperger's disorder or autism.  

Is the issue your son's discipline issues?  What else gives you the perception of a learning disorder?  Does he say inappropriate things while in a conversation about unrelated issues?  When he speaks are his stories disorganized or 'confused'?

Answer 8

his ADHD is obviously triggered by the fact that he is gifted and bored with the normal learning and stimulators that he has. if only he had someone of the same IQ to bounce off.

Answer 9

I agree with kvt2v...kids with Asperger's do have problems with Pragmatic Language.

I would recommend taking him to a specialist for your own evaluation.  The school offered to evaluate my child but I insisted on doing it myself.  They can not dx Asperger's or Autism, only certain LD's & it covers their interests, not you or your child.  The law is (IEP) that the school has to provide (just enough) services that will allow the child maintain the level needed for their grade level.  In other words, minimal...

I did let them do their IEP evaluation, but only after I had his offical dx for Aspergers.  That way he qualified under Autism (still in regular classes with superior scores) but they can't "jerk" us around about the services he receives.  He receives his social skills training, speech, OT, language, one on one tutor (if needed) etc...

He is very concrete in his thinking...very rigid thought process.  His pragmatic language is out there....part of his IEP safeguards him against being disciplined for things that he can't control.  (such as...not doing work, zoning out, getting stressed...etc)

I was very fortunate that my son doesn't go to a city school and his teacher & school is behind us 100%.  It's hard when they aren't.

Get documentation (an offical dx) and request an IEP.  It's the law that they have to respond within a certain amount of time (60 days I think...not sure) and follow the IEP.

With the social skills training comes better attention.  His language skills have gotten better.   My son made a complete turn around as far as that aspect goes.  He still has his days when things just aren't working out too well for him, but there isn't any sense in being punished because of your disability.