My genelogy lists my family as red irish what is that?

Question

My genelogy lists my family as red irish what is that?

Answer 1

I don't know if this will help much, but anyway here it is. Maybe it means a red hair phenotype appearing in Caucasian persons of Irish descent.

Black Irish is a traditional term believed to have originated in the United States that commonly ascribes to a dark brown or black hair phenotype appearing in Caucasian persons of Irish descent. This can be distinguished in contrast to the (lighter) brown, blond or red hair color variant, the latter stereotypically perceived to personify the look of typical Irish folk.[1] The term itself is rather ambiguous and not frequently used in everyday conversation. As such, the description of those it depicts has been known to vary to a degree in that some have differing views on which physical characteristics (e.g., dark hair, green eyes, medium skin tone or dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin tone) best define the appearance of the so-called Black Irish.[2]

Inspired by tales which claim the darker features to be of Iberian derivation,[3] knowledge seekers have looked to science for answers, often citing genetic studies pertaining to those with Irish (and/or British) ancestry. This is seen as a means of determining what genotypic and environmental factors have contributed to the divergence between the more or less prevalent types found among Irish people.

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[edit] Origin

The first clear evidence of human habitation in Ireland has been carbon dated to circa 7000 B.C.[4] Written records authenticating the existence of primordial peoples have yet to be discovered, but legends, such as those described in the Book of Invasions, refer to a number of historical ethnic groups, including the Fomorians, Nemedians, Fir Bolg, Tuatha Dé Danann, and Milesians. Despite the lack of empirical data linking them to the Irish, one or more of these cohorts have been acknowledged in previous and current ancestral studies, such as Dennis O'Mullally's History of O'Mullally and Lally Clan, or The history of an Irish family through the ages entertwined with that of the Irish nation,[5] wherein the author mentions the Fir Bolg as "the aboriginal people of Ireland, smaller in stature than the Gaels, with jet-black hair and dark eyes, contrasting with unusually white skin." Such observations lack scientific backing, but recent advances in genetics continue to offer more clues.

The term 'Black Irish' is also accompanied by claims suggesting these physical traits to be the result of an Iberian admixture originating with survivors of the Spanish Armada. However, the genetic contributions of the latter are likely to have been insignificant, as most Armada survivors were killed on the beaches, and many of the remnants eventually escaped from Ireland. It is believed that a group of Spanish soldiers ended up serving as armed retainers to the Irish chiefs Brian O'Rourke, Sorley Boy MacDonnell, and Hugh O'Neill, Earl of Tyrone. Consequently, these soldiers may have lived in Ireland long enough to father children, but did not constitute a very large number. The genetic evidence is that the survivors of the Spanish Armada probably left no legacy, as the Irish have only minute amounts of Neolithic Near Eastern Y chromosome genetic markers such as E3b and J, both of which are present in low, but significant, levels throughout Spain (with the exception of the Basque Country).[6]

[edit] Iberian connection

The Spanish Armada myth is thought to have been a corruption of a story based on the Milesians (not to be confused with the ancient Greek people of the same name), the purported descendants of Míl Espáine (Latin Miles Hispaniae, "Soldier of Hispania", later pseudo-Latinised as "Milesius"), speculated to represent Celtic-speaking peoples from the western Iberian peninsula who began to migrate to Ireland and Britain in the fifth century B.C.[7]

Genetic research also shows a strong similarity between the Y chromosome haplotypes of males from northwestern Spain and Irish males with Gaelic surnames,[8] with a sizeable difference between the west and the east of Ireland, in that much of those from the west owe less of their DNA to Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian populations. Genetic marker R1b reaches frequencies as high as 98% in northwestern Ireland and 95% in southwestern Ireland,[9] but drops to 73% in northeastern Ireland and 85% in southeastern Ireland. Additionally, R1b averages between 89% and 95% in Y chromosomes of the Basques of northern Spain (and southwestern France) considerably greater than levels of the same haplogroup found amongst the remaining Spanish genepool, where it varies from region to region in a range from 42% to 75%, but mostly with percentages in the 50s and 60s. [10][11][6][12][13]

In recently published books (Blood of the Isles by Bryan Sykes and The Origins of the British - A Genetic Detective Story by Stephen Oppenheimer), both authors propose that ancient inhabitants of Ireland can be traced back to the Iberian Peninsula, as a result of a series of migrations that took place during the Mesolithic and to a lesser extent the Neolithic Age. These movements theoretically laid the foundations for present-day populations in the British Isles.[14][15] According to journalist Nicholas Wade, Oppenheimer maintains there is a great lineal commonality between the Irish and British people, as reported in the March 6, 2007 edition of the New York Times. Oppenheimer also advances the controversial claim that a language closely related to Basque was long ago spoken by their shared ancestors.[16][17]

[edit] Statistics

In a statistical survey of the Irish carried out by Mr. C. Wesley Dupertuis in the 1940s under the endorsement and guidance of The Division of Anthropology of Harvard University, based on some 10,000 adult males, the following information was gathered and so documented.[18]

The hair color of the Irish is predominantly brown. Less than 3% have black or ashen hair; 40% have dark brown hair. Medium brown hues make up another 35%. Persons with blond and light brown hair account for close to 15%, while approximately 10% have red hair. Both golden and dark brown shades can be seen in the southwestern counties of Ireland, but fairest hair in general is most common in the Central Plain.[19] Ulster has been evidenced to have the highest frequencies of red hair with the lowest found in Wexford and Waterford.

In further examining pigmentation characteristics (both as a whole and regionally), studies have indicated the Irish are 'almost uniquely pale skinned when unexposed, untanned parts of the body, are observed' and '40% of the entire group are freckled to some extent.' Moreover, 'in the proportion of pure light eyes', data shows that 'Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia,' as approximately 42% of the Irish population have blue eyes. Another 30% have been found to possess light-mixed eyes and 'less than 1 half of 1% have pure brown.'

The complete results of this survey have been condensed and arranged in the Harvard Anthropometric Laboratory (formerly under the close supervision of Professor Earnest A. Hooton) with the cooperation of both governments in Ireland.

[edit] Other uses

A lesser-known point of origin refers to the potato famine of 1845-1851, which turned the blighted potatoes 'black' and as a result drove thousands of Irish to America's shores.[20]

The term has also been used to denote the offspring of Irish laborers and African slaves in the Caribbean. Montserrat, by far, experienced the highest concentration of Irish immigrants, as it was forcibly settled by the English crown using indentured servants from Ireland. These Irish servants were eventually replaced by West African slaves who took on the surnames of the prior inhabitants, much as African slaves in the United States assumed the names of their owners.[21]

In the United States, whites with Native American, African American, or other non-white ancestry may historically have called themselves "Black Irish," "Black Dutch," or "Black German" as a reflection of their coloring.[22]

A prominent theme of ethnology in Victorian England largely stemming from social prejudices of the time was that the Irish were racially different from the English people and thus considered inferior. Polygenism was a dominant theory, as was phrenology, and both were employed to 'prove' that Irish persons were less developed and more primitive than other 'races' of humanity. Punch cartoons often portrayed them with protruding jaws, alluding to the notion they were closer to apes than men.

John Beddoe (1826-1911), one of the most notable ethnologists in the United Kingdom, supported these concepts with his work. In The Races of Britain: A Contribution to the Anthropology of Western Europe (1862),[23] Beddoe wrote that all geniuses were orthognathous (having the front of the skull, almost vertical, not receding above the jaws), as opposed to the Irish and Welsh whom he exaggeratedly described as prognathous. Evasive or ignorant of the pre-Saxon Celtic influence on the English and likely his own forebears, Beddoe claimed that the Celts were closely related to Cro-Magnon man, theorized by him, as being linked to the 'Africanoid'. The Races of Britain was republished in 1885, 1905, and again in 1971.

Answer 2

I've heard of 'black Irish' - see link below - I can't see anything on the Irish Yahoo search engine for 'red Irish' (not unless you're an Irish setter, that is.)

Have now found a reference to 'red Irish' in a previous Yahoo Answers - see link - you have to scroll down quite a way to 'The Scouser', who mentions it in his answer.

Answer 3

Red Irish means that your skin is pale with grey/blue eyes and of course red hair. This is to difference you from the Black Irish they had black hair swarthy skin and dark brown eyes. The red comes from the Celts and the black from the Spanish blood.Ireland was never invaded by the Spanish they were the survivors of the Armada that washed up on the beaches of Ireland.

Answer 4

I have no idea what it means, I have never heard the term before, but, I have found this song, I wonder if it could refer to  someone living in Ireland but originally from England ?

THE GREEN ABOVE THE RED.

Full often when our fathers saw the red above the green, They rose in rude but fierce array, with saber, pike and skian, And over many a noble town, and many a fieid of dead, They proudly set the Irish green above the English red.

But in the end, throughout the land, the shameful sight was seen— The English red in triumph high above the Irish green; But weil they died in breach and field, who, as their spirits fled, Still saw the green maintain, its place above the English red.

And they who saw, in after times, the red above the green, "Were withered as the grass that dies beneath the forest screen; Yet often by this healthy hope their sinking hearts were fed, That, in some day to come, the green shouid flutter o'er the red.

Sure 'twas for this Lord Edward died, and Wolfe Tone sunk serene— Because they could not bear to leave the red above the green; And 'twas for this that Owen fought and Sarsfield nobly bled— Because their eyes were hot to see the green above the red.

So when the strife began again, our darling Irish green Was down upon the earth, while high the Euglish red was seen; Yet still we hold our fearless course, for something in us said, Before the strife is o'er you'll see the green above the red.

And 'tis for this we think and toil, and knowledge strive to glean, That we may pull the English red below the Irish green; And leave our sons sweet liberty and smiling plenty spread, Above the land once dark with blood—the green above the red.

The jealous English tyrant now has banned the Irish green, And forced us to conceal it like a something foul and mean; But yet, by heaven! he'll sooner raise his victims from the dead, Than force our hearts to leave the green and cotton to the red.

We'll trust ourselves, for God ts good, and blesses those who lean (On their brave hearts, and not upon an earthly king or queen; *And, freely as we lift our hands we vow our blood to shed, Once and forever more to raise the green above the red.

Note :- The term 'black Irish' is virtually unknown and un-used outside of the USA.

Answer 5

means your g*y. sorry to be the one to break the news.

Answer 6

this doesn't directly answer your question but it may help lead you to it.

I know that the reference to, black Irish is to the dark black hair and fair skin Irish, that Ireland at one point was invaded by Spain and that was the genealogy results for them.

So maybe Red Irish has to do with something like that.

hope this answer helps :)

(maybe someone else will answer too that knows more)