Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon?

Question

What were the differences between the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon people?

Answer 1

Cro Magnon are just Early Homo Sapien found in a cave in France by that name.  The difference between Sapien & Neandertal is, shorter, thicker more bowed femar (upper leg bone) in Neandertal, "A" shaped rib cage Vs the "V" shaped Sapien rib cage.  Overall thicker bones with a longer collar bone, and a longer lower skull with very large nasal opening.

I'm just an engineer with a passing intrest in anthropology, an anthropologist can give you a more detailed description. Chuckle, but is likely to give you some anatomy names that can confuse you.

Edit:

James did give you a good description so I had to give him a thumbs up on it.  He sez mandible where I'd say lower jaw... but it is notable that sapien has that chin where other Homo lines don't. Wolpoff is a mite out of the main stream but has some intresting arguements on Neandertal.

Answer 2

Well...James Z has one of the most descriptive answers with references, I’ve seen. I would add only one thought.

It appears that the reason we, Homo Sapiens Sapiens ,extincted our Cousin the Neanderthal is not brain size . As James pointed out, ole Neander had a larget brain capacity than us Johnny-come-latelys.

The difference appears to be in brain development and specifically in the neo cortex. We apparently process information differently in our brain which effects the decisions we make.

This, by the way, is a very good example of evolution in humans which, since our life span is now getting to be 100 years, more or less, ain't easy to study. We do much better studying life forms which have much shorter life spans,  Old Neander was ancient at about 30 years of age, best we can determin.

Way to go James Z; well written.

Jim D

Answer 3

Neanderthal Man, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, was a very close relative to our species, Homo sapiens sapiens.

Cro-magnon is our species and subspecies, it is the name of a cave in France where the earliest modern humans in Europe were found.

Neandethals are older, more robust, shorter, and more heavily built.  Neanderthals had a larger brain size on average than modern humans, and basically in Europe Neanderthals were shaped the way they were shaped in their bodies (morphology), by the cold climate resulting from the Ice Ages.

Neanderthals and Cro-magnons co-existed for between 5,000 and 10,000 years.  They had the same kind of stone tool technology, called Mousterian, which means that they had some kind of contact.

The relationship between us and them is complicated and controversial.

Here is a more technical comparison that I wrote for my senior seminar paper on Neanderthals:

Neandertal Traits

The Cranium

     There are a number of different traits used to determine what is a Neandertal and what is not a Neandertal.  Milford Wolpoff writes (1999): “No single feature can diagnose a Neandertal, any more than forensic scientists attempting to identify human dead can tell which race and individual comes from with a single osteological fragment.”  Among the eight most commonly accepted diagnostic traits that define Neandertals are the following: an occipital bun, a suprainic fossa, position of the mastoid crest, position of the juxtamastoid crest, size of the mastoid process, the supraorbital torus, the supraorbital sulcus, a receding frontal bone, and lambdoidal flattening.( Kreger, C. David 2003, Wolpoff 1999).  However, A. P. Santa Luca (in Kreger, D. C., 1978) used only four of these eight traits as diagnostic of derived Neandertal traits: the presence of the suprainic fossa, the mastoid crest, the juxtamastoid eminence, and the presence of a horizontal occipital torus with uniform vertical dimensions that has little occipital protuberance.

     In addition to these traits, there are the general considerations of the shape of the cranium that should be considered.  The general shape of the Neandertal cranium is long and low, with a low forehead and with very pronounced brow ridges present. (Tatersall, 1995:12). The face of the Neandertals is another trait of note.  Kreger (2003) highlights the characteristics of the face: “The Neanderthal face is distinctive for its significant midfacial prognathism. Features involved in this prognathism include a very anterior midface, retreated zygomatics, anterior position of the dentition, and the anterior position of the nasal aperture.”  The overall size of the Neandertal cranium is impressive, with cranial capacity exceeding modern Homo sapiens populations (Wolpoff, 1999:663-664).  On average, Neandertal cranial capacities for Wurmian populations is 1575 cubic centimeters (cc), whereas the average for modern Europeans is 1555 cc. (Wolpoff, 1999:664).  The largest Neandertal cranial capacity recorded is, interestingly enough, of Amud I, which is 1740 cc in size, exceeding the largest European Neandertal’s 1641 cc of the La Ferrassie specimen. (Suzuki, H. and F. Takai, 1970:124).  

     Further, there are characteristic Neandertal traits in the mandible.  Modern humans possess a forward projecting chin, and the Neandertals do not...  In addition to this, Neandertals have a gap behind the third molar and in front of the vertical ramus of the mandible. (Tatersall, 1995:13)  This is also referred to as the retromolar gap. (Wolpoff, 1999:811), and is considered to one of the more diagnostic features of Neandertals.  

     The Neandertal face, as described by the classic forms, was dominated by a very prominent nose; overall, the face of the classic Neandertal was characterized by prognathism. (Wolpoff, 1999:667).  The size of the nose is supposed to be related to cold adaptation. (Wolpoff, 1999:668-669).

Postcranial Traits

     Postcranially, Neandertals had a build that was “…more robust than that of modern people, and generally shorter, with a broad rib cage, long collar bones, and wide shoulder blades. Forearms and lower legs were relatively short, and the limb bones heavily built with thick walls. Joining surfaces were large.  In the pelvis the hip joint faced further outward, and at the front the upper surface of the pubis was long and slender. The hands were especially strongly built, with broad fingertips. (Tatersall, 1995:14).  Neandertals have been described as “short and stocky”, but this description is usually made in comparison to modern humans.  For the known postcranial remains, the average height of eight male Neandertals was 165 cm, and for five females, an average of 156 cm. (Wolpoff, 1999:676).  Weight estimates are trickier, but for European Neandertals, estimates range from an average of 80 kg for females and 84 kg for males. (Wolpoff, 1999:676).  

Variation

     Variation is an important theme when looking at populations, as morphology can vary between and within populations.  Variation is and can be a relative term that can often breed some degree of confusion, depending on what is being compared.  Wolpoff (1989:97) states that “the problem has become one of the relationship of Neandertals to the European populations of today.”  There can be some degree of confusion in terms of agreement in what traits are typically Neandertal, and what traits are not Neandertal.  Sometimes the same paleoanthropologist has trouble agreeing with him or herself on these traits.