Need a Natural way to fix bucking problem after being cinched up in my 7 year old 16.3hh thoroughbred gelding?

Question

i bought my thoroughbred gelding 2 years ago because i needed a horse to ride while i was training my green broke horse....the people we bought him from said he was ridable, and i saw her riding him in the arena and i even rode him the day before we bought him. little did i know that he had had 10-12 homes before us and he had been flipped over, whipped, tied down you name it he went through it. i have been working with him for the past 2 years with the Parelli technique and he has changed so much. we just bought a place in the country and this past winter i wasn't able to work with him very much(we dont have an arena yet) and he is worse than he has ever been. we have had vets look at him and physically everything is fine. its all mental with him. it takes months to even get a saddle on him(without the cinch) then if u dont work with him for a day we are right back to were we started. he doesnt bite kick rear charge or spook...he just bucks.

Answer 1

dont use a whip or spurs. u are going to get his trust, its going to take a while. be his friend. since u dont have an areana just go out in a feild.

Answer 2

I think that its great that you're sticking to the Parelli method... Don't listen to showjumping snob, that's all she is, an ignorant snob. i seriously doubt she has even researched to see what Parelli is about so she has no right bad-mouthing him. Hey, when you become a world renowned trainer snob, then you can say something. I know there are a lot of people on here who have seen flaws in Parellis method that have good reason, I respect them. DUH- horse back riding is not all natural. BUt the point of parelli is to get idiots like you snob who have no true idea of what goes on in your horses brain to understand. Some horse people have common sense and a basic understanding, others need the help.

If you want to continue with parelli I can tell you the answer is in level 2. I could sit here and explain everything word-for-word but it is so complex and there is so much to it I would drive myself nuts! There are also other reputable trianers that take a natural approach such as john lyons and clinton anderson. They both have great techniques.

Answer 3

Does he buck when you put the saddle on or just when you ride him?  And at what point does he buck?

If he's cinchy, ensure you are not putting a saddle on and immediately tightening it down on him.  If you're following Parelli, you probably already know this.  But first put on the saddle and only tighten the girth enough to keep the saddle from sliding, then go work with him or walk around a bit and tighten it a bit more, gradually so you're not flat knocking the wind out of him.  This should fix that problem, but isn't a temporary thing - it's a change that should be made permanently.

If he bucks AFTER he's saddled and you're on it could be a million different things that are causing it.

Unfortunately I can't figure out how to ask a question for more info then come back here to edit or add or finish my answer - once I'm done here, I can't answer more.

I have had a problem with my young mare bucking - but she is not bucking as a result of the saddle or my riding.  she's learned to unseat me when she's afraid of something in the area or spooked.  As long as I keep her focus and work properly with her, we are OK.  If you would like to email me through this answers thing, I will be happy to share my experience with you and the things trainers have done and will do this year to help me through this with her.  It's a case of extreme lack of confidence on both our parts - I'll be happy to share what hasn't worked with her and the things that have and why I think this is if you'd like.  I believe you find my email connection via my profile?

I'm kinda new to anything but answers here.

Good luck!

Answer 4

Find a rough stock rider, pay Him with cash and beer, and He'll make that horse feel uncomfortable every time "Flicka" wants to buck! Hey, its your body, your money!  The hospitals love and  grave this ****!   And no, thats not abuse, the horse does it because it has got by with it!  Abuse is when your getting pins in your leg beacuse "Flicka" bucked and you hit the ground. I seen it happen because of somebody buying tapes from Monty Roberts or whoever! The video tapes were much cheaper then the initial e.r. visit though!     Now who's feeding who?  Who's abusing you!

Answer 5

that sounds pretty extreme. there isnt a quick fix for this sort of thing.

start with a lead rope (not attatched to him or you)and pet him all over. pet his back with the rope and drape it over him. pet his belly and girth with it. if he moves let him walk around you and when he stops, stop. no problems then take the rope and put it around his girth and move the rope like your petting him. once he gets entirely comfortable you could tighten and release it around him.

its gonna be worth getting a circingle. its saddle like, comfortable, safe, makes noise. get him comfortable with it do some parelli with it around. no biggie. just be cool and still make it obvious its going on him. dont wait too long and dont push it too much.

do the same with the circingle as the rope. (never leave it on loose or unnattended cause if it slips then the dates over)when you can put it on with no trouble take it off! put it on take it off. have him move around with it on. work up to making it saddle tight.

then get a saddle blanket and desensitize him to that. then use the circingle and saddle pad together. do some parelli games with it on like that so he knows it dosent hurt.

this is a good way to prepare for getting him to accept a saddle. i hope this helps! good luck my friend!

Answer 6

Parelli is great but this horse needs to be re-started like a green colt from the ground up.  I'm not sure if Parelli offers a colt-starting DVD.  Clinton Anderson does offer colt-starting but this is intensive and has to be maintained everyday for quite some time.  You should not allow him to buck like you describe.  If you do not know how to prevent this behavior, get some help.  It sounds like he has some real issues and he is not safe.  If this continues, he's going to severely or fatally injure himself or someone else.  If he freaks out with the saddle sitting on him w/o a cinch, he IS NOT ready for that.  You have to back up and make the steps smaller.  Please get some help so both of you can be safe and he can get to the point where he has a calmer, happier life.  He is bound to have ulcers if he is so high strung and stressed out by such minor things.  Help him with his stomach with some probiotics for a couple of months (product must be refrigerated when purchased or during use or it's not good product).  He's been given a good health report by the vet so this can only be good for him and will help him be calmer if his stomach is healthier.  Sounds like you have your hands full.  Don't give up.

Answer 7

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=...

Answer 8

my mare was like this too and we had another mare that would just collapes when you went to girth her up.  This probably sounds sooo stupid but we had a horse phsyic come out to talk to my horse because she seemed very depressed. My mare told us that the saddle hurt her really bad when we would ride her and all they saddles she was ridden in before we bought her hurt her. My saddle fit but one of the parts was messed up and it would dig in to her when we rode and i had no idea because it was only visible under the weight of a rider. She also has extremely high withers so she was ridden in many ill fitting saddles before i owned her and associate saddles with pain.

She told the phsyic she wanted to go for a walk before  being saddled so we kinda just made a deal that day and she has been fine ever since.

I know that this phsyic was for real no matter how dumb it sounds. She could name people who my horse had been trained by and my horse wanted to know what had happened to one of them and my horse knew he had trouble breathing. The man had died of lung cancer. I don't think a physic could just pull that out of her *** haha. My trainer knew she wasn't lying because she had personally known and trained with the man.

Some people have incredible gifts.

I am not advising you get a physic just check you saddle fit when you do get it on him. I would reccomend doing parelli ground work and lunging before you attempt to saddle him.

If you can get a blanket on him that is a good start. Just touch him with the saddle while he is on the lunge line if you can.

Time and patients are key.

Good luck

Answer 9

It sounds like he has figured out a way to get out of work.  First step - if you have a round pen:

Get into the roundpen and ask him to trot a bit in each direction (By a bit, I mean just once or twice around - change direction at your request, not his decision).  Have the halter on.  Ask him to stand, put a leadrope on, if needed, until the saddle is on and cinched just tight enough that it won't slip.  Take the leadrope off, if it is on.  Ask him to trot in each direction.  If he starts bucking, let him.  The session does not end until he can listen to you with the saddle on, trot a bit in each direction, change at your request, walk, stand quietly.

If you do not have a round pen, put him on a lunge line.  Trot a bit in each direction (again, just once or twice around you).  Ask him to stand, bring the saddle over and cinch it just tight enough so that it will not slip.  If he starts bucking, fine - but again, session does not end until he can trot quietly, walk and stand quietly.

Continue this until he no longer bucks as soon as the saddle goes on - then start with the saddle being put on at the start of the session and session ends when he is quiet.

The important thing is to let him buck it out, but he must work quietly before the session ends.  By allowing him to buck it out, you are letting him get used to it and allowing him to make the decision on length of session.  If your session is always 10 minutes of quiet work, and he spends 5 min bucking, he is the one adding time to the session.  If randomly one day he doesn't want to buck - make the session a bit shorter than 10 min and he will learn that by not bucking, the session is shorter.

Personally, I don't like Parelli - to much marketing and not enough real training.  I would suggest checking out John Lyons.

Also, my mare used to have a heart attack, which included bucking, when the girth was tightened - she learned not to, but still jumps a bit sometimes if she hasn't been ridden in a while (a few months) with a saddle.  I just let her jump a bit at the end of a bridle, then we get to work.

She has only bucked under saddle twice - once when my friend (her former owner) was riding her and got tossed out the saddle a bit and came down a bit hard - basically scared my mare.  Second time was just a random feel good buck when I was galloping her for the first time.  So being a bit girthy will not necessarily translate to bucking while being ridden.

Answer 10

This will probably make many angry but here goes-you have worked with this animal for an extended period of time and have gone above and beyond to try and make sure this horse doesn't have any obvious reason for bucking.  You either accept he is a bucker and keep him for a yard ornament  or send him on his way to a dinner plate in Europe.  Cruel?  Yes, but are you willing to spend time in the hospital or a lifetime as a cripple for an animal that is a habitual bucker?  Especially when there are wonderful, usable horses looking for a home that would give back as much or more love as you would give them.  There are horses that will get you killed and no amount of training or care will cure them

Answer 11

If he's just bucking when you put the saddle up and try to cinch him, I would just work on some desensitizing stuff with him.  Toss the saddle on, pull it off, put it back, pull it off.  Then maybe get something like a surcingle that you can put around his girth area, and tighten just a little bit, then loosen, tighten a bit more, then walk him around, etc.  If you don't have a surcingle, you can use a long lead rope, and just put pressure around his heartgirth, lead him around, then loosen it, do it over again, etc.  Also just practice swinging the cinch over his back, under his stomach, etc with it not attached to the saddle.

When you have him tied up, and toss the saddle up, wait awhile before you drop the cinch....go to the off side, and rub his sides down, and really get him to relax.  Once he's relaxed, slowly drop the cinch, and let it touch him while you pet and reassure him.  Once you do have him cinched up, leave it relatively loose (but tight enough to keep the saddle there), and just leave him tied up for a little while to chill out.  After 10-15 minutes, untie him, walk him forward, and finish tightening the cinch before getting on.

If he bucks when you ride him, you need to make sure you longe him before you ride, and let him get the bucks out....whenever he bucks, just ask him to go faster, until he's too tired to buck, or realizes it won't change the fact he's gotta go work.  He's probably trying to buck and kick when you saddle him because he's been able to intimadate people away from working with him that way.  I think you'll be able to get him out of it.

Good luck!

Answer 12

Did you have a chiropractor work on him? The main reasons a  horse will buck is A)Poor saddle fit and B) painful back. Horses that are cinchy tend to have subluxation right where the neck comes in to the withers. Unless you vet is trained in chiropractic medicine they would miss it. Does the horse have any other problems, uneven wear pattern on the hooves, low heel high heel syndrome anything like that? What is his conformation like can you post a photo?

Answer 13

Horseback riding isn't natural, horses aren't running around in the wild with saddles on their backs. It's a fact of life. I don't buy into this stuff, I think Parelli's a marketing genius and nothing more, common sense is the best method to employ in most cases.

That being said...

Have the vets just done the average wellness exam? Have you have x-rays, lameness exams, or chiropractors looking at him? If not, don't rule out physical issues just yet. Are you absolutely, positively sure the saddle fits? Is the girth chafing for rubbing?

How do you know he's been "flipped over, whipped, tied down, you name it" - what evidence do you have?

If the horse was rideable at the last home, then something YOU have done has made him change-or something physical is bothering him.

My remedy, after aboslutely ruling out chiropractic and saddle fit(as well as teeth) issues would be to treat it like a "I don't want to work" habit. I would assume he knows bucking can get him out of work-otherwise he wouldn't be continuing if it's behavioral. So, I would grab some saddle-tite, a good helmet, and get my butt up there. Horse begins to buck? Send the horse forward immediately and make him work and think about something, do trot-spiral circles, basic hip and shoulder movement, ANYTHING to keep him moving and thinking. If the horse bucks, change directions and send off in the opposite direction, repeat as neccessary, and if the horse is complying quietly then let him walk and rest. Horse bucks again? Work, work, work. He needs to know that bucking just makes the work get HARDER, and behaving quietly makes everyone's life-including his easier.