New bit maybe?

Question

I own a welsh cob who is used for lessons a 3 days a week. He has an extremely hard mouth. I cannot get him to soften (by massaging) and he is very strong. I am currently helping to "train" a half welsh mare who is his half sister. She is ridden in an elevator and is extremely responsive. My pony is ridden in a D-ring by me and the lesson kids. He has had this bit his whole life and I'm sure his mouth has gotten harder with lesson kids hanging on it. He is very up-hill. I do lots of lateral bending and sitting trot to get him to get his hind end underneath him. This seems to help a LOT. Now all I need to work on is getting him to give me his mouth. He has his head straight up in the air and no matter how much I try to get him to drop it he won't. One of my friends suggested trying him in a waterford bit. He is not just like this on the flat he is dragging me during jumping too. What do you guys think I should do?

Answer 1

Don't ride with a bit! Get a rope halter or bitless bridle and ride in that. That's helped TREMENDOUSLY with a horse I used to ride. He would take the bit and run basically, but after 3 months of riding in a hackamore (not a mechanical hackamore, a rope halter) he was SO much better with a bit because he trusted me with a hackamore. He learned that with a hackamore I wasn't going to hurt him, and that transferred to a bit, and he became much more responsive and not so push-through-the-bit-y. I seriously recommend just getting a really good rope halter (from some place online, like Tammy's Rope Tack, or ebay search yacht rope halter, they're much suppler and more comfortable for the horse than a stiff rope halter) and making two reins from your lead rope, split reins, clip-on reins, etc. and riding with that for a while. Good luck!

Answer 2

Trying the waterford is a good idea, that bit is great for horses that pull or hold onto the bit.   If he is really uphill, you shouldnt try the elevator that his half-sister goes in. You could also try a boucher, it applies poll pressure which will encourage him to lower his head. Try experimenting with different materials too- copper, happy mouth, rubber, etc. Good luck!

Answer 3

the miracle bit for me is a rubber mouthed pelham

i get the jointed mouthpeice and use it with double reins.

the pelham is a harsher bit which will achieve results, but the rubber mouth is kind on the mouth and won't make the horse's mouth even more unresponsive.

the pelham is similar to the person's answer above mine, only the tomthumb is western. And the pelham has a snaffle ring and a ring for leverage, hence the double reins.

Answer 4

You say he has a hard mouth, but my pony needed some more help turning than stopping.

If you need help turning, i would suggest a full cheek bit. My pony is now turning alot better.

If its stopping, my friend rides a horse that chases other horses, and goes really fast. She uses a slow twist bit, but there are also corkscrew bits if you know what you are doing.

There are even full cheek twists you can get too.

I would just suggest that you don't use a kimberwick bit. Even if it doesn't have a huge shank, it doesn't do the horse any good, especially if there are kids riding him. How many kids have good hands? What do you need to have mastered for a kimberwick? Just my experience.

Don't try and lower his head if he can't. Horses don't have all muscles conditioned from birth. Try doing exercises to strengthen his neck to get it there. Its not going to do any good to force him to put his head in the right position if his muscles can't take it.

I'd suggest a full cheek bit... did wonders for my pony's turning.

Answer 5

Well, if the pony's well being is the goal, I'd retire him as a lesson pony, keep him in the bit he is used to, and work him on collection and laterals as you have been doing.  The thing that isn't working is the lessons..however, I know that if this is a business retirement may not be a viable option.

Answer 6

Well, before you try any more severe bits, i would try a copper roller D-ring. He might try to play with the rollers, and in the process lower his head, but it isnt anymore severe than his regular bit.

If that doesnt work, do try the waterford, or possibly a pelham.

Answer 7

I certainly wouldn't put an elevator on your pony when the lesson kids are riding him.  If they hang on his mouth, they will do more harm then good.

If he isn't accepting the bit stick to a snaffle.  You might also try a copper one--I really like mine.  It helps my horse salvate and accept the bit.  Make sure the bit either has a full cheek or d-ring.

Don't let your horse drag you around the ring.  If he starts pulling halt him, and back him up.  You may also want a slow twist on the bit.

Also, make sure you are riding well.  If you have a bad position, you give your horse an excuse to misbehave.

I suggest you do some more ground work with your horse.  You need to establish yourself as the "herd leader".  

If you insist on a stonger bit, you could try a pelham.  I used to ride my horse in one.  It made it a lot eaiser to get him into a frame and stop him, but he leaned more on it and backed up in front of the jumps.  

Good luck.

Answer 8

My mare was alot like that, there was no way you could keep her collected in a snaffle, I use a Tomthumb on her and it worked wonders for keeping her undercontroll and helped a little in the collection deparment but i wanted somehting more so i got a Curb, Imediatedly she collected up. just my preffrences, hope this helps.