No offense, but can Shias please answer?

Question

I don't want anyone, Shia or not, to go ballistic. Let's keep a mature and civilized conversation here. If anyone acts like a flipping baby and screams out rude/racist comments, I will report you. Thanks to all those who answer :)

My question is:

I have seen a couple posts by Shias saying that Sunnis are the followers of the Sunnah of AbuBakr and Umar. I have also seen posts like "follower of Ali" and "Ali Maddad". Now to me, and to most people, we don't get it. We do not follow the Sunnah of AbuBakr and Umar, we follow the Sunnah of Muhammad (pbuh). So, why do you call yourselves "followers of Ali", when you believe Ali followed the Sunnah of the prophet. Shouldn't everyone follow the prime example: Muhammad (pbuh)?

Also, the issue of praising Ali (ra). Many of my Shia friends always say "Ya Ali!". We usually say "Ya Allah", so why do you say "Ya Ali"? And why do many of you believe that Ali (ra) has a higher status than that of Muhammad (pbuh)?

Answer 1

I didnt want to answer the question because of the answer by Kiwi which shows that he does not seek knowledge of Shias, but the main reason I am answering is because you are kind in this question, and are asking this respectfully enough to get my attention....I want to thank you

1) Sunnis are not followers of Abu Bakr and Umar... They are our brothers in the philosophy of True Monotheism of peace and submission (to God)

Let me clear this misconception now

When we say followers of Ali (as) we state our position on the Khilafah after our noble Prophet (pbuh) died. Since we dont believe that any leader was righteous enough after Imam Ali, we believe in Imam Ali to be our first leader after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). You know those who say Ya Ali madad ask help from God for the love of Ali.... IN our Salat/Namaz we never say Ya ALi Madad... we say "Allahumma salli ala muhammadin wa ala ali Muhammad" meaning May God bless Prophet Muhammad and his progeny. Except that we only praise God in Salah/Namaz

We also love The other Imams so we call their names too. But that is out of love for what they have contributed to the people of Islam (Sunni and Shia). It does not mean we are expecting them to suddenly come down and do some supernatural miracle......no..... that is a power only God has.... God has blessed Humanity with the presence of Prophets and holy people (we call Imams) and a way of saying thank you to God and them is by relating how they could have helped us if they were here. in other words We are trying to ask God to help us for the Love we have given to his righteous servants....

less than 1% of so called Shias DO give Imam Ali a higher position than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)... According to real twelver shia Islam that I follow and most shias follow, they are doing an unforgivable Shirk.... Imam Ali (as) himself said a million times In Nahj ul Balagha (reliable Shia source for study) that Prophet Muhammad was the greatest man that ever lived.....If a "Shia" actually says that Imam Ali (as) is greater than Prophet Muhamamad (pbuh) he is declaring that he is kafir.....thats what it says in the Fatwas of our Grand Ayatollahs

oh and yes we do say Ya Allah/Ya Khoda and Ya Muhammad

And calling ourselves the followers of Ali (as) represents that we love Muhammad (pbuh)'s order to us to take him as our first successor after him...Because we believe that there is no authentic version of the Sunnah of Muhammad (pbuh) except through Imam Ali

Oh and to answer your other question, Our Shahadah is "Ashshadu Al-Lah ilaha Il-Allah wa Ashshadu anna Muhammadur RasulAllah" Saying Imam Ali (as) name in Shahadah is not part of it, but adding to it is not Haram either....

Shahadah means to testify about the God's existance and his Prophet (pbuh) is messenger... Shias believe that only that is the Shahadah. Look at this Shia Fatwa site and see how it defines Shahadatain

http://www.lankarani.com/eng/dic/alpha.p...

"Testifying oneness of Allah and prophethood of the Holy Prophet of Islam (AS)."

Saying Imam Ali's name is not an obligatory addition as we believe, but saying personal opinion is not haram either....

please ask more questions if you wish so...

Salam Aleykum...

Answer 2

1.the sunna of Imam Ali(AS) is the sunna of prophet Muhammad(pbuh).and we call ourselves followers of Ali bcoz prophet called us like that.and bcoz in the Day of Ghadir(hajjatol vida)Prophet said whoever follows me shud follow Ali after me.after prophet's death muslims were divided...those who accepted Abubakr as the successor of prophet and those who believed Imam Ali(as) is the right successor of prophet Muhammad(pbuh).so to be recognised the second group is called followers of Ali and obviously the first group might be called followers of Abubakr...u say this to be known which group u belong to...bcoz both groups r followers of Muhammad.If all ppl had listented to what prophet said in the day of Ghadir,there wudnt be anyone called shia or sunni...there wud be only muslims who follow Allah,Muhammad,and the Imams.

2.saying Ya Ali is not praising Ali.It means O Ali!and its not praising but calling.and we say ya Allah too.

3.no real shia thinks that Imam Ali(as) has a higher status than prophet Muhammad(pbuh)...eveybody knows that the best creature is prophet Muhammad and immediately comes Imam Ali(as).

peace

Edit:1.I didnt talk abt what sunnis believe abt the successor of prophet...I explained what shias believe for u...

and yes many many ppl were witnesses...some of them accepted...some of them tried to ignore it and some what only ignorant and got influenced by those who ignored and hid the truth.

2.If u know arabic u shud know that saying YA is calling...not praising...

3.yes Imam Ali(as) is the second bcoz he is and bcoz Allah says...its none of our business...

Answer 3

I claim to be neither shia nor sunni, simply a muslim.

There are some major things which have been altered in the practicing of Islam from the sunnah of the Prophet.

1. The thing that piques me most is the issue of multiple divorces occurring in one sitting. This is the root cause of disruption in our society. This did not happen in the Prophet's time.

2. The thing that is most obvious and provable is the time for termination of Ramadan's fast is mentioned in Quran as night. Yet now the majority does this a few minutes earlier.

I do not want this to be lengthy. Also, I do not want to pass judgements. It is up to you to see for yourself where things stood in Prophet's time and how you follow them now.

Judge for yourself.

Answer 4

Prophet .Mohammed & .Amam .Ali are like prophet .Mossa &Haron when .Mossa went to meet with .God he choose .Haron khalifa but they follow the .Samerri .When prophet .Mohammed went to meet .God & left his cousn khalifa they follow .Aomer who was the first to choose .Abobaker .It was a deel between the two who was the second khalifa , who choose him?!.

Answer 5

Aslam u alaikum you all, I am not Shia .But I want to answer as well.Hazrat Ali(a.s) has highest rank in all sahabs.And I personaly think that he should be the first Caliph.We sunnies does not call ourselves folowers of Abu baker or Ummar(r;a)

We love all sahabs.I will also say Ya Ali and it is common among sunnies here in Pakistan there is nothing wrong with it.

But I will must say shias to pay respect to sahabas and for Allah's sake dont call them with bad names.

Answer 6

salamun alaikum

What is sunnah and what is bida'a.

ahlu sunnah view and shia view varies. it is a very big subject out limit the Y/A spaces.

The prophet told to people to follow what and what?

3 views

Al kitab only

kitab and his deeds as by followers,

kitab and his itr (family)

there are three kinds of hadeethes mentioned in sahih muslim and other sunni collections

who is the successor:

left open

through majority

there will be 12 imams

all in sunni collections

who is ahlu bait / itr/family

ali, fatima, hasan, husein

the four above plus their sons and sons

four plus wifes. all in sunni documents.

so the arguments debates will give no results.

Calling Ya ali

Tawassul and istighaza on certain method is allowed by all sunni madhabs and many sunnis do this and goes to saints tombs, some even call them for help. like ya rasoolullah, ya sheikh abdul qadir jilani .

sunnis except salafis do tawassul.

Answer 7

that's a great question, lets remove this misconception!!

i hope you get the right answers!!

@

Kiwi watch your Mouth!! i agree with the asker!! i am not a s**+'a!! , what the h**l should i answer!! you answer the question?

thanks to Allah(swt) i know what i am following!!

Answer 8

I wouldn't say that Shia believe Imam Ali (as) has a higher status than Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).  It is just that he is beloved and held in high esteem due to his virtues, such as wisdom, patience and skill as a warrior.  That Imam Ali was martyred, as were his wife Fatima Zahraa (as), the daughter of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), and later his children, gives Imam Ali (as) a special place in the heart.

Answer 9

Fine. Ya Allah Ya Muhammad Ya Ali

Does that make u happy?

When the Prophet openly declared Imam Ali (as) as the Guardian over Muslim Ummah on His Last Pilgrimage (Hajj) on Ground of Ghadeer, then what to argue about? If the Prophet (s) had chosen abu bakr on the Ground of Ghadeer then we had no problem in following abu bakr as a guidance after the Prophet, but the thing is, The Prophet (s) appointed Imam Ali (as)!

But the decision that has been made in the heavens about the Mastership of Ali (as), of course no one on Earth can deny that, not even the angels and not even the Prophet (s) Himself as Imam Ali (as) was chosen by Allah as His Wali and the Prophet's (s) Wasi (Guardian).

That's why the Shias say:

La Ilaha Illallah Muhammad ur Rasoolullah Ali un Waliullah!

~***~There is no God but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger, Ali is His (Allah's) Friend (Wali)~***~

Edited: Rumaitha, no...Shias don't praise Imam Ali greater than the Prophet and Allah (nauzobillah). When u say Ya Ali it means O Ali come for Help! As the Prophet (s) Himself called Imam Ali for help during His battles. It's confusing to some but pretty straight forward to those who think straight.

Answer 10

salam

We say that we are followers of Imam `Ali as a way of distinguishing ourselves from Sunni Muslims, whose understanding of the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad comes from the Khulafa and others who supported the Caliphate. We do follow the Sunnah of Prophet Muhmmad, but we do not take the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammaf form the same sources as sunni Muslims. Our narrators of ahadith form Prophet Muhammad are those who supported the Imamate of Imam `Ali and those who succeeded him. We also accept as sources of the Sunnah narrations from the Imams due to our belief that they transmitted the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad one to the next.

To call upon someone by saying "Ya ___!" is acceptable in Sunni Islam as well as Shia Islam. We say "Ya Allah" quite a bit and sprinkle in some ya `Alis, ya Fatimas, ya Hussayns, etc. See http://www.sunnah.org/publication/encycl... for information about tawassul in general in Sunni Islam.

As before, one of the reasons that Imam `Ali gets emphasised so much is because Shia Muslims feel the need to distinguish themselves from Sunni Muslims in their Islamic education. We do praise Prophet Muhammad quite a bit and learn about him often. We also have high respect for the Imams who we believe succeeded him in leading the Ummah after his death.

Actually, "`Ali wali Allah" is not a requisite addition to the shahadah. It is reccommended to say it, but not required. If one does say it during salat with the assumption that it is required, his salat becomes batil. The specification of our belief that `Ali wali Allah is another measure that we Shia Muslims do to distinguish ourselves from Suni Muslims.

You asked, "And why is he looked up as (by many) a higher status than Muhammad (pbuh)?"

Those that do - and I am sure that they exist somewhere - are misguided and in danger of committing kufr, as per the rulings of both Shia and Sunni Islam.

We use the phrase "`al;ayhi salam" after many more people than do Sunni Muslims - mostly Prophets and Imams. For Prophet Muhammad, we have a longer salawat that is often recited in chorus and interrupts the speeches of anyone who is speaking to a Shia Muslim audience. Our salawat for Prophet Muhammad is "Allahumma salli `ala Muhammad wa aale Muhammad!"

For us, the more specific Ahlulbayt include all of the Imams as well as Lady Fatimah. We consider the wives, cousins, etc. of Prophet Muhammad to be his family, and they have some status. However, we believe that the more specific Ahlul Bayt are those who were purified from all sins in the same way that Allah described the purity of Prophet Joseph from any temptation. We believe that Allah granted the Ahlul Bayt the grace of the knowledge and willpower to abstain from all sin and error. And to emphasise again: we consider Prophet Muhammad to have been the best, purest, and most perfect human being to ever have existed.

EDITS

You asked, "Why the Imams though? Because that phrase is said only after mentioning the names of prophets and messengers. We also do the same salawat for Muhammad (Allahumma 9alli 3ala Muhamma wa 3ala Aalehi wa A67aabeh)."

This is one of the distinctions between Sunni and Shia Islam. I have not seen any ruling against this in Sunni Islam. It certainly is not the normal practise in Sunni Islam, though. I have heard the occasional salawat in Shia jam`ats including mention of companions, but it is alqays qualified with the Arabic word for "selected."

You asked, "All the wives? Even Aisha and Hafsah?"

As the wives of Prophet Muhammad, Aisha and Hafsah have a certain position that is set apart from other Muslims. We Shia Muslims are different from Sunni Muslims in that we acknowledge their faults and do not elevate them as examples to be followed. That status of being related to Prophet Muhammad is what I referred to. It is not that we speak of the Ahlul Bayt and think of the wives or cousins of Prophet Muhammad or anything like that, but that we know that they are related to him and have that kind of privilege - and responsibility.

Answer 11

Many of my Shia friends always say "Ya Ali!". We usually say "Ya Allah", so why do you say "Ya Ali"? And why do many of you believe that Ali (ra) has a higher status than that of Muhammad (pbuh)?

As for Ya Ali....... we say both

I don't believe that the Imam Ali has a higher status than the Prophet...

This is what I have to say:

How can their be someone other than the Imam Ali after the Prophet Mohammed? I mean.. he appointed the person closest to him.. it wouldn't be a friend that was closer to you than your daughters husband and uncles son.. ??

Answer 12

salam,

you've asked many questions here and i will try and address them all. if i miss any out you can tell me.

The sunnah of the Prophet (saw) that you believe you follow was not written by him. It was narrated by some of his companions but most of it was not recorded until many years after he passed away. In our view of history (i'm speaking very generally here), much of the sources in your books are not very reliable. After the caliphate of Uthman, Muawiyah fought Imam Ali (as) in order to obtain the caliphate. Over time, and especially after the martyrdom of Imam Ali (As), Muawiyah established his dynasty, the umayyad dynasty. This dynasty had not been voted in by anyone, but it was brought in by corruption and violence. The umayyad dynasty was constantly opposed by Ahlulbayt (as), namely Imam Ali, Hassan and Hussein (as), and their followers. Following this dynasty, came the abassid dynasty, which was as corrupt and as unislamic as the umayyad one and both of these dynasties fought and murdered the pure Ahlulbayt (as). Most of the sunnah in the sunni books was written during these two dynasties and much of it was influenced by the corrupt rulers themselves - they employed the writers of the sunnah and tailored a lot of the sunnah the way that suited them - and at a time of "war" with Ahlulbayt (as), the best way to fight the war would be by decreasing the Ahlulbayt's status in Islam. Most hadiths noting the status of Ahlulbayt (as) were disgarded and hadiths praising others were placed instead - most of those were praising Abu Bakr and Umar who were the ones who had empowered Muawiyah during their caliphates.

Secondly, a s**+'i is "a follower of Ali and Ahlulbayt AFTER the Prophet (saw) and if you enquire, nobody in their right mind will say Imam Ali (as) has a higher status than the Prophet Mohammed (saw) - there is no doubt that the best of mankind was the Prophet Mohammed (saw). The name "followers of Ali and Ahlulbayt" or "shia" was what the minority of people who supported Imam Ali (as) and Ahlulbayt against the tyrannical rule of the Umayyads and Abassids were called - it does not mean we don't follow the sunnah of the Prophet (saw). In the s**+'i school of thought, there are four sources which we rely upon for our fiqh: Quran, sunnah, "aql" and ijma' (in the sunni schools they use: Quran, sunnah, qiyas and ijma'). Clearly, this shows that we do follow the sunnah of the Prophet (saw). However, the sunnah in our books is mostly narrated by Ahlulbayt (as), rather than most of it being narrated by the companions as with most of the sunni sunnah.

Thirdly, praising Imam Ali (as) is not something strange - the Prophet Mohammed himslef praised Imam Ali (as) numerous times. Our allegiance to Imam Ali and Ahlulbayt (as) is our allegiance to the Prophet (saw).

"(O Prophet) tell (people) I don't ask you any wage (in return for my prophethood) except to love my near kin. And if anyone earns any good We shall give Him an increase of good (in return for it)"

[Quran 42:23]

It has been widely reported by the Sunni commentators of the Holy Quran that:

Ibn Abbas narrated: When the above verse (42:23) was revealed, the companions asked: "O' the Messenger of Allah! Who are those near kin whose love Allah has made obligatory for us?" Upon that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Ali, Fatimah, and their two sons." He (PBUH&HF) repeated this sentence thrice.

you can find the sunni references for this hadith here:

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/cha...

And once again, i reiterate that nobody has higher status than the Prophat (saw).

When we say ya Muhammed, ya Ali etc. that is not to say we are worshipping them astaghfurullah. We are asking Allah (swt) through His love for them - this concept called tawassul is actually accpeted by sunni scholars but many sunnis are unaware of this:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?H...

As for the shahadah, in the s**+'i school of thought the compulsory shahda is to testufy that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is His Messenger. Aliyun waliyullah is a recomended addition but it is not compulsory. And this addtion was not "made up" by us, rather the Prophet (saw) declared that Ali (as) is waliyullah. The Prophet (saw) stated: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla) O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him." (recorded in al-tirmidhi, amngst many other sunni books). To understand more why we view this as a very important matter and the context in which the Prophet (saw) said it in and the ayah that was revealed before and after this hadith, please read this:

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/cha...

In repl to your question to Prince of Persia about the choosing of the successor: There is a lot of evidence which backs up our claim that Imam Ali (as) was appointed successor and some of it is summed up here (if you don't want to read the whole thing then particularly pay attention to this:

The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Your position to me is like the position of Aaron (Haroon) to Moses, except that there shall be no Prophet after me" - sunni references available in the link). Also, with regards to Abu Bakr's election - if you take a look at your own history books you will find that Abu Bakr was voted in by a small group of companions who were gathered in the saqeefah - this is not the majority of Muslims as you state. And in our opinion, as you might know, there is no need for elections because the successor of the Prophet (saw) is always appointed by God as you will understand from the link i povided above.

I hope you understand my answer and i thank you for the manner in which you have asked - it's actually quite rare for someone in Ramadan to ask this question in a resppectful manner as you have done.