Now that some of you know that "substitute parent" is insulting to some APs will you stop using it in Y!A?

Question

For your information, I have stopped using the term "birthmother" to describe a natural mother, even though I have issues with that term as well. (I feel as though it is derrogatory towards adoptive parents.). The only time I use "birthmother" is when talking about what someone else says and I believe I've started putting it in ""s to show it's not my words.

Answer 1

No.

all adoptive parents are substitute parents.  It may not sound pretty but its true.  I tend not to use the word but to each their own.  If someone is confident enough to embrace and use the word to describe themselves, then good for them.

GAIA ROCKS!!!

Answer 2

As long as people stop referring to birth parents as child abusers...

Answer 3

Who cares? No really. who.cares.

What she calls herself is her business. What I call myself is mine. What you all call me might p**s me off but what you call yourselves means nothing to me, nor should it.

I call myself white trash all the time. I have a freaking tin sign at my front door that says "f**k with me and you f**k with the whole trailer park"... any white folk got an issue with that?

I also call myself a b*tch at least twice a day. Any female dogs want to take that up with me?

Yeah I didn't think so. again.who.cares.

Answer 4

Not likely.... if anything, those who enjoy hurting others will probably continue to use or increase the use of the term.

Some terms are simply intended to hurt.......

ETA--- SO I'm obviously not around much. I didn't realize someone was calling herself that.

If someone wants to BE a substitute parent and wants to be called a substitute parent.... then so be it.

"I" am not a substitute parent. He has another mother too.

I would NEVER want my child to think that I'm just here for now......

I will be there for my kids 'til the day I die.

Just imagine bring a 3 year old child who is in need for a permanent family..... How would you feel being introduced to your new "substitute" parents. As a 3 year old, I would feel as if I was just a substitute child, or that these parents are her until the real parents come back..... Sadly, the "real" parent never come back for so many. Imagine overhearing people talk about your mommy and daddy as just substitutes.

The term is just sad.

Answer 5

I have never used the term.

Answer 6

This is funny.

I see one person ( the one you've publically called out on a couple of occasions ) using the term. And shes not using the term to label others, shes using the term to label herself.

That is a heck of a lot different than coming onto a forum and calling "others" a term.( especially when its a term coined by the industry to help them achieve more adoptions, to make them, more money. )

Now If i call an adoptive parent a "substitute parent" and she says I'm really offended, would you not call me that. I would absolutely consider not using the term.. That isn't whats happening on this forum. Infact, I can't think of ONE OTHER poster who regularly uses the term "substitute parent" when referencing adoptive parents as a body of people.

Not one. Can you? Can anyone?

I hope that GR continues to call herself what she wants. Nobody has a right to tell someone else what to call themself. You could call yourself a Gorilla and I wouldn't have any right to tell you that you weren't one. I could voice my opinion on it ( which shellyp has done just beautifully here:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... ) Intentionally opening the door for many other "opinions" on the term. In that question and that question alone I see reference to it from people across the board. But its rare that I see "adoptive parents" being called Substitute Parents on Y!A's ever.

Clearly people are ALREADY showing their respect without even having to be asked. Because I'm not the only one who chooses not to use the term here even though I feel the title is true.

ETA: No Kristy, but you said "some of you" as if multiple people here are using the term substitute to refer to AP's on Y!A's, when multiple aren't and Gaia Rain doesn't on a regular basis in reference to ALL AP's.

Answer 7

I hope so

Answer 8

If GR or anyone else wants to call themselves a "substitute parent" or an "adopter", it doesn't bother me.

If people who chose to place their child for adoption want to call themselves a "birthmother" that doesn't bother me either.  

You can call yourself whatever you want. I don't choose to use "substitute parent" or "adopter" to apply to me or my family.  I'd appreciate that courtesy as I try to refrain from using "birthmother" as it offends people.

Answer 9

Who is the "you" you want to stop using it?  There is only one person that uses it.  Wouldn't it be much more appropriate to just send her an email instead of making a public announcement?  

I really wonder why this commotion is being made about GR's use of a term she has chosen to call herself?  Is it jealousy perhaps, because she is accepted and appreciated for who she is and how much effort she puts into understanding the adoptee perspective?  

Maybe instead of hassling her, you could learn a thing or two about WHY she is so loved and respected by us adoptees.

Answer 10

Everyone is always going to find something Wrong with one word or another....  and it seems that every other year the "good" terms change and become the "bad" ones...

When I grew up we always referred to the mothers of my adopted cousins as "Natural" and when I was married to my ex-husband we talked about his "Natural Mother"

Then I went to Adoption Parent Tranning class and when asking a question to compare parenting my bio children with my future special needs children I raised my hand and started to ask...." with my natural children...."

Before I was even finished with the sentence I was Tarred and Feathered and the insturctor made a big wooping deal over it...How dare I call my bio children Natrual--what the heck were my furture adopted children going to be called... I was horrified I had made such a Huge Mistake and was ashamed I would dare define my bio children as my natural children...OMG!

Then I learned on the internet that I could NOT call myself a birthmom for my biological children as I didn't place them for adoption so I wasn't permitted to refer to myself as a birthmom--How Dare I? How dare I take that title from those mothers who had a child that was adopted!!! I was told I had to call myself a biological mom to the kids I gave birth and raised...and that I should under no uncertain terms ever imply that I was a birth mother again!

My ex husband would come unglued when anyone calls him an "Adoptee" as he feels this is like Fiancee and he WAS Adopted so he is an Adopted Person not waiting to be adopted which would be an Adoptee...someone waiting to be adopted not a person that was already....

I am a mom--you are a mom and somehow when WE ARE TALKING about Adoption there needs to be words to define Roles... That is it--It is the ROLE....not the title and I don't think my adopted children have ever heard me say out loud that I am their Adoptive Mother--and I know for a fact I don't call myself a biological mother to my older kids....that would just be too strange...

I do refer to My ROLE as the adoptive mother of two siblings from foster care as "substitue" parent--but, generally only in reference to Why I chose this path for adoption.... I chose to adopt children who were in need of a substitue mother they were born...walking and talking and no one made a choice to place them--therefore I am the substitue parent....

I do not use that term to define myself--just the role....and frankly I still feel I am a birth mom--because I did give birth and I am a mom....and a bio mom...and an adoptive mom...

Funny thing is that All of my kids just call me Mom and that is fine by me--don't care what anyone else calls me and only care what my children do....

My adopted children refer to the mother who gave them birth as "A-name" by her first name... Mom A and it just works fine for us....

Answer 11

I wouldn't count on it, since AP feelings don't appear to be as valid as adoptees on Y!A.

I would hope so though.

Answer 12

i have only seen this term used by one person and she was referring to herself. If this is how she wants to refer to herself, then who am I to tell her she is wrong.

If someone called me a substitute parent, I would be offended, but I have never seen this on Y/A.

Answer 13

First off, the person who I think you are referring to would NEVER intentionally hurt or disrespect anyone on this board.  I feel badly if I had any role in her being called out, because I would never hurt this person.  I have learned a lot from her.

To me, it isn't about the parents....professionally, I don't like the term substitute parent.  It implies a lot of negative things.

1. Temporary

2. Not as good as the original (and in some cases this is NOT true)

3. Fake....like artifacial sweetner that is made up of chemicals and leaves a bad after taste in the mouth.

Adoption is a forever committment and to my kids (foster care) they need that security after being bounced around.

It also diminishes the role of the person who cares for, loves, heals, and raises the child.  In my case, people who go through h**l and back with these kids....but I understand it is different for voluntary reliquishments.

I know that first moms don't like to hear this, and adoptees don't like to hear it, but there is more to being a mom than giving birth...the ability to conceive and give birth doesn't make a person more important as a mom than another.

I would be very concerned as a social worker, with a parent who viewed her role or function that way.  I work with special needs children who have had MANY substitute moms....most of my kids want more than anything to have a normal life and be treated like any other child...even some of the older kids.

This battle needs to be about what is best for our kids.  I'm not diminishing what adopted adults feel, I'm really not....but our focus for change should also be about the children....not being right or hurting each other all the time.

Answer 14

I never use that word. a-parent works for me.  I'm not hard to please on that score.

Answer 15

I've got to say - as much as I dislike the term - no one is using it here to describe people other than themselves (No first mothers or adoptees are using it as a label for APs) - so it doesn't seem to be an issue.

Answer 16

Kristy, Im an adoptee and use the term birthmother all the time, to me it simply refers to the fact that shes been my mother since birth!!  I find "substitute parent" incredibly insulting though.  My adoptive parents were and are my parents in every way, most certainly not a substitute!  Please be wary of falling into the rediculous trap that has been set on sites like this one, political correctness is overdone to the max, especially here.  You are never going to please everyone, and you are never going to reach a point, with this subject especially, where everyone is going to agree.

Answer 17

I personally don't use it but if someone wants to use it to describe themselves, then just leave them alone to define themselves.

There's enough telling people how to think and feel and do on this forum

I'd like to see an end to the use of 'birthmother' 'birthfather' (that one's hilarious) and derrogatory terms like sperm and egg donors used here to describe the parents of adoptees.     Those people are a part of us so insult them and you insult adoptees, don't you see.

Also I'd like people to stop telling me I can't call my mother my real mother

Adoptees and first parents are not here to serve the needs and feed the adopters egos.  When will adoption finally be about the adoptee rather than all about the adopters.  Think about it, please.

Answer 18

Why is Natural Mother derogatory to Adoptive Mothers ?

Do you know in the 60's etc they would call the Woman relinquishing the child Mother and call the people who were gaining the child Adoptive Mother  and Adoptive Father and NOT Parents

Did you know that ?

Its only of the past decade or two that its reversed and all this other c**p has come up like Gotcha days, And Gotcha Parties , ad *Adoption is the New Pregnant* Tshirts and Cards for adoptive parents etc etc,,,

Why do you think that is ?? MULTI MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS

Some people have seen $$$$$$ in the adoptive industry and tapped into and what has it done ? Nothing except create more havoc and great divides between the person who gave birth to the child and relinquished the child and the person who adopted the child and raised the child

There is no respect.

There is to my knowledge only the one person here who has already been mentioned above that uses that term to describe herself. SO posing this question to her is in poor taste, she is a lovely and kind person and generous with her words on here.

Sorry but you went after the wrong person...I dont think anyone would have a bad word to say about her

Answer 19

Sure, right after you stop using 'birthmother'.

Don't ever read David Kirk's "Shared Fate".  He's an AP who did plenty of studies on adoption in the 60s.  He uses the term often in that aforementioned book.  He also uses the term 'natural mother'.

The thesis of his book is that adopted children do best when there is an "acknowledgment of the differences" as opposed to pretending it's the same as bio families.

He also calls infertile people, "sterile" and "non fecund".

Answer 20

It's easy for APs to be called substitute parents by people that don't know us. It doesn't bother me. What's important to me is what my family and people who know me think.They are the only ones who can rightfully and accurately judge what kind of parent I am.

Answer 21

I'd never call my parents or anyone I know and respect a substitute parent.  A parent is a parent. Yes, maybe different types with different roles.  Substitute has the connotation of being "second best." Anyone who takes on the lifelong responsibility of raising kids is not second best in my book.

But if someone wants to call themselves that term, I have no problem with it.  It's their choice.  What they want to call themselves doesn't affect me in the least.

Answer 22

Are you going to stop using the term birthmother?

Answer 23

Ah - Kristy - the person that uses that term - is using it to describe herself.

So what's the problem????

Have we not got a right now to call ourselves what we like anymore????

Seriously - waste of time question.

Build a bridge - please.

Answer 24

This is a silly, non-issue.  No one is going around calling other adoptive parents substitute parents, so who would you like to stop using it?  As far as I've seen, one pap refers to herself that way and that's created the fuss.  There was one thought provoking question/answer about the use of the term, but now this is just silly.  You  are baiting, and it detracts from real issues and real discussion of respectful language.

Answer 25

I do understand somewhat what you are trying to say.   However, the difference is this:  The person using the term is calling HERSELF that and should be entitled to call herself anything she wants.  It is the same as my referring to myself as being "Blessed to be a Mom thanks to what we consider to be our miracle of adoption".  Many people have told me they are offended by the terms that I use, and I did originally change the signature since it seemed to include others.  I now specify that it is what "we consider".  If people find offense to how I feel, then that is their own issue and nothing I say or do will change that.  

What bothers me is when people use a term to include others - like calling Adoptive Parents "infertile" or Bio Parents "drug addicts".  That is wrong.  

For the person who refers to "substitute parent" with regards to herself, if that is what she chooses, then she has the right to do that.  I only have an issue if she started calling me a "substitute parent" - and knowing the person you are referring to - she would NEVER do that.  She is too respectful for the games that many people play here on Y!A.

Answer 26

You know, for a while there I was offended that any child would be raised by someone calling themselves a "substitute".  Then I chuckled, I remember when I was was a pre-adoptive mom with a grandiose plan and "altruistic" ideas.  I had re-named myself too!  It passed, I developed my parental instincts, learned to meet his needs (including that of permanency and honesty) and we lived happily ever after.  Best of luck to you and your families.