Okay, in martial arts, I understand that you Judo and BJ guys say that 90 % of all fights end up on the ground

Question

but what happens when there's a crowd? Are there any techniques to use or are you just screwed? I'm asking this because I"m considering learning a grappling art to complement my current styles but I would really rather have a practical one rather than a flashy one....

Answer 1

Ugh.

While I do agree that taking the fight to the ground isn't a good idea, some people take it to far and say such silly stuff.

For instance "there's no refereee to save, blah blah blah." What does this have to do with anything? The referee helps the guy who's losing, and on the ground, it won't be the grappler.

"the ground is hard, so most moves dont work like they do on a mat..." Yeah, that's BS. It's less comfortable, sure, but hard surfaces or uneven terrain doesn't magically negate grappling techniques.

Furthermore, that will affect the guy on bottom more than the guy on top, which brings me to...

"being on the bottom is such a huge disadvantage" Well, that's true, but why would the better grappler be on the bottom? Even if he was a r****d and pulled guard, he'd probably be on top within seconds, since untrained people practically sweep themselves.

Long story short, I agree that trying to grapple in a real fight is a bad idea. However, false information is false information; the stuff that I've cited is hardly better than the BJJ nuthuggers saying that fighting on the ground is inevitable or that striking doesnt matter.

Answer 2

Listen to Bushido. The absolute last place you want to be in a street fight is on the ground. Things that work on the mat don't do well on concrete and asphalt with your face being ground off on the pavement or gravel. The ground is hard and the person on top has a decided advantage. There are no tap outs and no rules about breaking kidney punches and gouging. Yes you need to know some grappling and you need most of all how to avoid being taken down. When down you need to know the best ways back up. The longer you are down the harder it is to get up.People only stand around and watch their buddy tumble around on the ground with you in the movies. In real life they are kicking you in the soft places while he is rolling you around. You have to get up as fast as you can. With multiple attackers it is even more important. Get them lined up and use the body of the closest attacker as a shield. When he is finished use him as a weapon if you can..

Answer 3

Anything can happen in a fight man - you just learn and practice as many techniques as you can so that you can pay attention to your surroundings in a fight rather than 100% focus on what you're doing in the fight. Judo, bjj, catch wrestling - they all have their pluses and minuses. The trick is to find a reputable, honorable school with an instructor who has a lot of experience with actual fighting (sport or street). Also, full-effort sparring in grappling programs is a must - that's how you learn best, by going all out in a controlled environment.

I'm a BJJ practicioner who's a former amateur boxer. I can assure you that it's entirely necessary to know both standup and grappling.

Answer 4

In a street fight, here's a good example of what happens.  True story told for its relevance - its not hypothetical and its not style vs. style, its an example of what ACTUALLY happens.

Out at the bar with my friends years ago (yes, we were young and stupid and drunk - I know, I know), one of my buddies got into an argument with another fellow.  It got heated, but no blows were thrown - just insults.  The other guys friends pulled him away and we pulled our guy away and moved for the door.

All of a sudden, the other guy comes running up the stairs and starts climbing the railing to get at my friend again.  My friend poped him in the face and he went rolling back down the stairs.

We all looked at each other and without words just booked out of there right quick.

A few blocks away, the same guy comes out of nowhere and hits my friend in the back of the head, knocking him to the ground.  In the span of a few seconds, my buddy, a wrestler (ground game) and soccer player (fast) from school had the attacker on the ground and was trading blows with him - dominating him.

Here's the important part.  Another one of my friends casually walked over, with his hands in his pockets even.  When he got there, the hands came out and punches were flying.  Then a kick to the ribs that couldn't be blocked - the ground game had him occupied.

What would have happened if the attacker had taken my friend to the ground?  There wouldn't have been a casual walk there would have been a run.  Sure, my friend took the attacker to the ground, but he knew he had numbers on his side and that's the only reason it worked.

If he had done the same thing when outnumbered, he would have been fine UNTIL others helped their buddy out - at that point his ground game wouldn't have helped.

Going to the ground certainly helped my friends - the had the numbers.  Without the numbers, the ground game is a REALLY bad idea.

Having said that, even if 90% of fights go to the ground, it doesn't mean its a good idea to train for the ground only or to take a fight to the ground intentionally - who knows what is going to happen when other people are around.

Personally, I don't believe that figure.  I think that people who think everything goes to the ground think that BECAUSE they always train for it - for them, due to their training, everything does go to the ground.  That doesn't mean fights always go to the ground outside the dojo or that going to the ground will always be a choice, let alone a good one to make.

Sure, nice when its one on one - like dictated in a ring, but in real life, there aren't rules like that so its not a good idea to assume it will be honorable.

The grappling will never hurt you, but its better to not have to use it on the ground.  Lock, strikes, throws and such are better than ground game.

The ring has rules, the street doesn't.  The street has cement, the ring doesn't.  The ring has a referee, the street doesn't, the ring is one on one, the street isn't necesarily so.

These things make all the difference in the world when it comes to the value of going to the ground.

Answer 5

take MMA, it is both ground game and stand up so you will be prepared for everything that might swing your way.

Answer 6

Don't believe the hype that BJJ is the be all and end all of Jiu-jitsu where do you think it originated from ,here's where...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuyo_Mae...

Bjj is good as I'm a fan of the Gracie's but to think that ground fighting is the be and end all is wrong as you suggested in a crowd as you no doubt have realized if you where ground and pounding your attacker then 4 of his mates appear and kick your head in whilst you are concentrating on your attacker in the street ,no one wants to be in that potential situation even though stressed hypothetically.

Sorry but you don't want to be going to the ground period in real situations and I'm assuming that is what you want to train for not bjj ring fighting with a ref conveniently positioned to stop things before they get out of hand ,any real martial artist worth their salt will want to be able to win in a real survival situation so lets keep it real.

Japanese jiu-jitsu deals with this scenario by remaining standing if possible as there are no rules on the street :)***

Answer 7

If you already know how to strike then you should grapple anyways. Why learn one aspect of the game and not know the other? Thats an incomplete fighter.

Answer 8

Judo people do not say that.  And the founder of Judo, the genius Dr. Jigoro Kano never said that 90% of all fights end up on the ground.

In fact the Kodokan in Japan emphasizes 60% - 70% throwing techniques and 40% - 30% matwork (Newaza).

In any street fight you really want to avoid going to the ground at all possible.

The BJJ people really haven't a clue as to what they're talking about and then its all hype.  BJJ is a ring fighting style to win nice shiny trophies in front of screaming ticket buying $$$$$ spectators.  Ju-do is derived from Ju-jutsu and is a martial art and not a sport.

Answer 9

stacking

its a technique where you keep yourself moving so no matter how many guys are coming at you, you always try to line them up in a straight line

this way your fighting one guy and using his back as a shield

you need to stay fast on your feet when with a crowd

Krav Maga does a lot of work (never tried only heard) with stacking so your only dealing with one guy at a time

i do stand by BJJ i love it

i think one on one, someone whos very well versed in it against someone else the BJJ will almost always win

but you need to have a standing base too

need to be able to punch and kick

personally

mixing Savate (french kick boxing, very fast movements lots of kicks) with BJJ was a very good idea they do at my gym

the guy who teaches it, works the savate for stand up, granted we cover some muay thai stuff too, but Savate mainly because if your fast enough you won't get hit

just my couple of cents on mixing a striking style with ground

Answer 10

Ok, wat u do is: first aim low(stomach, ribs), then  the back and neck, u know the part under the ears, and above the shoulders, its located on ur neck, a few swift hits there, and its over, now if its a brawl, its for survival, a swift hit in the throat will kill, a chop in the neck will kill or paralyze

Answer 11

it will never cease to amaze me some of the absolute c**p some ppl answer on here,obviously the only experience they have is in a dojo or on a video game.

if youve done stand up syles obviously a ground/grappling style will compliment them,as all martial artists know(or should)cross training is the key to self defence.common sense tells you the last place you want to be in a real situation is on the ground especially with multiple opponents.

90% of all fights go to the ground is just a tale perptrated by the bsjj proponents to boost the sales potential of that particular style.yes most fights that involve UNTRAINED ppl and/or ALCOHOL do go to the ground,but where the h**l do they get the figure of 90% of all fights go to the ground?

the only technique you can use with multiple opponents once your on the ground is prayer,pray they dont hurt you to badly or kill you.

Answer 12

In a situation where you expect multiple attackers do not go to the ground. Keep the fight standing up or expect to get stomped by an onlooker who's a friend of the guy you're fighting. If I've had a few drinks and my buddy is on the ground with a guy he's fighting, I'll run up and punt the other guy's head like a football. Use whatever stand up fighting skill you know to stay on your feet in a bar fight or a street fight.

Answer 13

don't ever let a street brawl go to the ground.

if they are in legs reach, you kick.

if arms reach, you hand strike

if grappling reach, you elbow/knee.

if they actually grab you, (pay attention UFC and MMA obsessors) you can hit to the neck, the most vital spot of the body.  if they succeed in grabbing you from the front then hit them in the windpipe.  if they take you down you can land repeated blows on the back of the neck until vertebrae are shattered and they wont be bugging you anymore

the point is you need to be fast enough to keep people "stacked" , aka always having one person in striking range and one person only. train a martial art that does not do ground game and you will be fine forever.

i would never let a fight go to the ground.

i am NOT saying that wrestling/jj/judo are ineffective for defending yourself against an attacker, because against the majority of people (who dont take any martial art), any techniques can be effective if used right.

judo would be more effective than JJ/wrestling against multiple assailants as you focus on throwing an attacker using his own momentum. whereas JJ/wrestling focus on taking them to the ground and fighting them there..

Answer 14

I've actually asked questions regarding this figure. Essentially, I question its validity at its core. Does this 90% pertain to police records where the goal is to subdue the suspect, to all drag-out, knuckle-bustin' fights, bar-room brawls, TKD point-sparring matches, etc.? How is this even possible to quantify?

Frankly, I think it is a made up number to draw people in to training within a certain discipline. Ground fighting is important, don't get me wrong, but you bring up a good point with regard to fighting in a crowd. Add to this fighting multiple opponents, weapons, and environmental challenges, to name a few more variables where going to the ground wouldn't be a good idea! Personally, I would go to the ground as a last resort and do my best to not let it get there...

Anyway, to answer your question, there are numerous arts that focus primarily on grappling. Bear in mind, though, should you find a complete martial art, it should encompass all aspects of combat (ground, in-fighting, striking, kicking, locks, holds, weapons, etc.). Some of the more popular arts that focus on grappling first would be Chin-Na (usually taught with a more robust method of Chinese boxing), jujitsu, aikido, bjj, judo, hap ki do, and Chinese boxing such as Hung Gar, Choi Lai Fut, and Five Animal, Five Family.

You'll find that many MMA fighters tend to pair up their striking with bjj and judo (like you mention), as it is rather effective in the ring. Remember, though, that grappling and ground-fighting can be separate entities. If I were in your position, I would likely try to find a method with the least amount of forms/sets/katas and has the tendency to have more drills and conditioning as to not infringe on your current curriculum which you seem to enjoy.

Answer 15

i would have to say just learn the whole martial arts and u will always be able to dodge a hit...