Okay atheists, it's time to use some logic.?

Question

I have two arguments for you.

1. What made everything.

I know that this sounds really stupid and basic, but let me explain. I think that it can be established that the world that we live in, and everything that we can sense is finite. This is exactly what time is all about. It is about the distance between a beginning and an ending. For example, there is a time when someone is born(beginning), and there is a time when someone dies (ending). Everything has a beginning and an ending. Think about it. Most evolutionists will claim that it started with a big bang of some cosmic dust or soup. I would ask, what thing did the dust come from, and what did the thing that the dust come from come from? Do you see a pattern? There is only one logical explanation. Something infinite must of made the first finite thing.

2. How do you know that the Earth is billions of years old?

I'll make this one easy. What do you base your carbon dating on, and what do you base your fossil dating on?

Answer 1

a smart person would say

"hmm i dont know. nor does anyone else but i will do some scientific research and find out"

a dumb person:

"hmm i dont know. nor does anyone else... that must mean god did it"

Answer 2

1. Time is the 4th dimension.  Therefor time will be much different in an 11 dimensional space time compared to our 4 dimensional universe.  The 11 dimensional space time could have always existed.  Look up "M Theory".

2. radiometric dating, not just carbon, is based on the established decay rates.  In other words, scientific facts.

Answer 3

You are presenting us with ID pseudo science. Visit a real science website not sponsored by a christian group and do some research.

Later addition.

Natkra are you familiar at all with how carbon dating was originally established as a basis for measuring the age of things?

If anyone is interested, look up the Bristle Cone Pine and how it was used as a contributor to radiocarbon dating.

Answer 4

Your first mistake is assuming that evolutionists claim that "it started with a big bang."   That's just not correct - eveolution is the change in genetic frequency of allelles.  It's not an explanation of the formation of the comsos.

Your second mistake is assuming that one, and only one, god would create our known universe.  Why not three gods?  Seven? Zero?  You assume one god and make it the right answer.  Why is it only one and not ten?

We know the earth is billions of years old from geologic records.   Geology is the study of rocks, to put it very simply, and carbon dating that your reference only pertains to living things.    We also know the ages of things because they decay over time - atoms have a half-life and we can determine how much has decayed over time and go backwards to determine ages of planets and moons.

This is just a starting point.   Learning about geology will help you answer your question.

Answer 5

Not again

1. Nobody knows. Doesn't mean "gawd diddit". God is a weak persons answer.

2. Its called 'science". Go learn.

Answer 6

I just love it when people say "Oh, the universe was just there. Nothing created it. It was always just there."

Umm, we weren't just here. We came from our parents, who came from their parents. A tree comes from another trees seed. Rain comes from the water on the earth, evaporated. Everything mechanical comes from factories (built by people) or people themselves. The materials come from the earth. And yet, the earth was always just there?

riiight. Everything has a cause and an effect. I never heard a scientific law say "It was just there."

Answer 7

What part of the scientific method are you leaving out?  You are ignoring empirical testing.  Empirical testing is what separates the Theory of Evolution from religious origination opinions like Creationism and Intelligent Design.

John S:  It's the "arguing from ignorance"  logical fallacy.  It's also the "contrary-to-fact hypothesis" logical fallacy to some extent as well.  Wait, he also commits a classic apriorism here too...  And then there's the "using the wrong reasons" logical fallacy...

Answer 8

1.   This is a fallacy.   Because time passes you think it is a fixed stream.  However, when you move into 11 dimensions (and there is significant evidence to say that those dimensions are there) then time becomes just another dimension and things no longer have the cause and effect that we see in out macroscopic senses.

These effects poke into our universe at the quantum level.  It has been shown that at the quantum level matter actually pops into and out of existence in a seemingly random fashion.

Where did the universe come from?  I do not know.   For a singularity or a non-existent universe quantum effects may extend up to the size of an entire universe rather than the sub-atomic level we see now.    M=theory is interesting, we will have to see what happens when we can actually test some of the consequences of if it is right.

Just because we do not know the answer does not mean that God Did It, or some infinite being exists.  People in history have attributed thousands of things to deities that have all turned out to have natural causes.

2. How old is the Earth?  There are a few clues.   The oldest rocks on the planet are about 3 to 4 billion years old.   You can not use carbon dating for rocks - no carbon - also the half life of C14 is too short to date past about 50,000 years ago.  However there are plenty of other radioactive isotopes that have very long half lives and can be used to date things billions of years old.  The 4.5 billion number comes from analysis of meteorites that would have formed at the same time as the Earth, but have not gone though the recycling process that the Earths crust does though plate tectonics.

For more information look at:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-...

Edit:

What I am presenting to you is science. What part of the scientific method am I leaving out?

No it is not.   Science makes no assumptions as to the answer.  It looks at the facts and deduces the answer that best fits those facts.

Process of elimination people. If God didn't do it then what did.

And here is your assumption.   Why your God?  Why not Vishnu, or Kronos or one of the other hundreds of creator gods?   Why not say it was created by the Great Green Arkleseizure sneezing the universe into existence?  They all have equal evidence.

If you want to say God Did It, then if you want to be scientific about it then you have to ante up the evidence that actually supports your claim.  Your problem is that you have none and the only book that supports your claim is patently wrong about the creation of the universe.

Answer 9

1. It doesn't really say it was the beginning but rather the beginning of this cycle.

2. Because that's what I learned in school. It makes more sense to me than 6000 years. Almost all of the information ties into it though. When they talk about the Sun, ice samples, geology, dinosaurs, etc.. all of it is much older than 6000 years. The bible stands alone.

Answer 10

K 'atheists' , 'scientists' , 'darwinists' , and 'evolutionists' which is not even a word mind you, yet people think it is. Anyway these are not the same thing. These is no automatic acceptance of evolution and/or the big band just because somebody is an atheist.

Answer 11

Oh my. I can't even be bothered to give you a real answer. People like you make me feel suddenly very tired..

Answer 12

1:

The origin of the universe is perhaps THE ultimate question in cosmology.  The simple answer is that we don't know.  Some possibilities is that the universe came about from a quantum fluctuation in higher dimensional space... or maybe there's Lots of universes and they come and go all the time.

I want you to notice that "God" doesn't really solve the problem either, only pushes it back a step.  If you're going to say that god created the universe, then you're left with 'Where did god come from?'.  And if you can accept that God has always existed, why is it so hard to accept that perhaps Existence itself has always existed.  Perhaps some higher dimensional reality exists which is infinite and our universe is one of many in that reality.

Of course that's all speculation...  There are several possibilities that are all compatible with what we know about physics.  Like I said, we don't know, and that's ok... It gives us something to explore.

2:

There are several lines of evidence that all converge to paint the picture that the earth is billions of years old.  The primary line of evidence has to do with the radioactive decay of unstable elements.  An unstable element can decay into a daughter element at any time, so for example, Uranium can decay into Lead.  That process of decay is extremely predictable.  So if you have an amount of Uranium-238, you can very precisely predict how much of it, over time, is going to decay to Lead-206.  Looking at the ratios of parent elements and daughter elements that exist on rocks on earth, we can determine the age of the rock.

The assumption that is made with this method is that there was an even distribution of these elements to begin with.  And that assumption has been tested.  If the distribution was even to begin with, when you plot the ratios of different elements on a graph, they would all fall on a line.  And that's exactly what happens.  That wouldn't happen if the distribution were not uniform in the early solar system.  If the distribution were random, the points on the graph would be random.

Also, there are several different elements that undergo radioactive decay.  If you date the earth using different elements, you get dates that are all very close to each other.  If radiometric dating were so wildly inaccurate, then using different methods would all produce wildly different results.

Also, by the way, carbon dating is not used to date the earth because carbon does not have a long enough half-life.

I hope that helps.  If you have more questions, i'd be happy to help.

Answer 13

1. No, everything doesn't have a beginning and end.  Energy, which the universe is, cannot be CREATED or destroyed.

2.  I don't know how old the earth is.  But I do know that the middle eastern myth about it popping into existence one day is not a true story.  We know this for a fact.  Evolution alone disproves Genesis.

See how easy that is?

Answer 14

1. Everything always was. There was no beginning.

2. Light from galaxies billions of light years away reaching Earth.

Radiometric dating is based on half life of decaying radioactive isotopes.

Answer 15

1. They only think their parents made them. It's impossible to get them to answer anything beyond that.

2. They have a strong FAITH in a scientific story that was thrown up to the wall to see if it would stick.

Yet, they trash people of legitimate faith. Go figure.  

Answer 16

Why don't you look this up yourself? being an atheist doesn't makes us scientists by default...

Answer 17

So in your view god created everything.

Then who created god?

You can not have it both ways.  If everything needs a creator then god needs a creator and ergo can not be god.  

If god does not need a creator then by extension neither does the universe.  

Which do you want it to be?

Answer 18

No, you don't actually have two arguments. You have two ignorant assertions.

1) This is the Fallacy Of Turtles All The Way Down: If *everything* had to be "made", them who/what made your sky pixie ? Then, who/what made that sky pixie's creator, and so on. Ergo, logic alone proves that everything does NOT need a creator. Once thats established, then adding the studied laws of the Universe shows that nothing "needs" a specific and artificial creation. Everything always was, it just wasn't always in the forms that we see out there now. Your claim of the "need" for an infinite thing to make finite things is the Fallacy of Personal Incredulity; The Universe is not obliged to do as you demand.

Trying to claim that just because a few miserable life forms on one tiny ball of dust need a beginning, so does the Universe, is anthropomorphic arrogance of the first order. Doesn't your teachings mention being at all humble ? Its quite clear that you missed that lesson.

2) We know from many ways, and they all agree on the time frame involved. Earth rocks can be dated back as far as 3 billion years, lunar ones from 4 billion, and carbon dating has nothing to do with that issue, as carbon dating only works for up to about 60,000 years, so that is not useful for dating back billions of years. If you wish to question science, first you need to educate yourself about that science so that you don't make more basic mistakes such as this one.

Oh, we can also tell that the Universe is at least 12-13 billion years old by observing far out into space; since astronomy uses light or radio, both of which obey lightspeed laws, that must mean that the further away one looks out into space, the further *back in time* one is looking.

Its too bad for you that you deny yourself the majesty of the Universe *as it is*, in favour of myths and fantasies. But, since thats what you have chosen, you have no standing to criticise those who deal in facts and evidence.  

Answer 19

You would have to learn the science of atheists:  the chance that everything is happened is 1...

Answer 20

1 who knows, but they keep pushing the god of gaps further back.

Who said anything did it, perhaps time is ultimately circular and bends back on itself. Until you run out of choices why fall back on ancient superstitions?

2 a basic education.

Answer 21

you're right that does sound stupid

i'm not going to respond sensibly because you are only looking to validate your own beliefs

Answer 22

1. What made god? If you can't answer this your whole "argument" falls apart. The answer to where it all came from is *unknown* so far, and may never be known. Deal with it.

2. There are several radiometric methods of dating which all converge on similar ages for whatever is being dated. These are good for ages in the millions of years, so trying to date something only a few thousand years old by this technique will give unreliable results. Carbon dating is only used for formerly living things up to at most 50,000 years old. The Shroud of Turin has been accurately dated this way to within a few years of 1300 CE (CE=Common Era, since not everyone's a Christian), by the way.

3. www.talkorigins.org

Answer 23

1  There is never an answer to that because no matter what you say, you have the same question for your answer

2  There are at least 6 radiological methods based on the same principle as atomic clocks