Open Style Fighting Tournaments - where are the traditionalists?

Question

In "open" style combat events such as ValeTudo, K-1, Shooto, UFC there seem to be very few traditional fighters. Or very few that will claim their traditional background. They call themselves Muay Thai kickboxers, Miletich fighters, BJJ stylist, and so forth, but I've seldom seen "Okinawan Karateka" listed in their biographies.

Why do so many of these fighters who have studied Tae Kwon Do, Karate, JKD, Judo, etc. NOT list their original styles?

Answer 1

Part of it might be tactical.  When I first started training at my MMA gym, I didnt exactly want to broadcast that my primary discipline was TKD, that's like asking to be taken down.  Also, most people did more than one style through the years, so they say "a striker" or "a kickboxer" or "a grappler".  

However, I think that outer perceptions are the more likely culprits.  Muay Thai is perceived as, and has a much "tougher" reputation than TKD or Karate.  

The only ones I know of are: GSP - Kyokushin Karate, Chuck Liddell - Kempo Karate, Cung Le - Tae Kwon Do and San Shou, Ben Saunders and Tim Boetsch - Jeet Kune Do, Lyota Machida - Shotokan Karate, Karo Paryisian - Judo.  

There may be a few others, but I have always heard that Anderson Silva, Stephan Bonner, Bas Rutten, and Forrest Griffin all did Tae Kwon Do at one point early in their martial arts development.  

MMA used to be mixed, but now it's really it's own style.  No Gi JuJitsu is different than MMA JuJitsu, so it's really separate now.  

James

Answer 2

First off the main reason you will not find a "true" or "authentic" traditional martial artist competing in these events is because they are not permitted to do so and should never care to. These types of events are designed to stroke the ego and there is no place in authentic Karate for ego...rather they pride humility and service above all else.

Next to quote on other poster " because they're cowering in their dojos hoping no one will figure out their 'system' doesn't work" I can tell this person has never experienced a real Sensei or trained with real martial artists. Traditionalist never cower but rather train to use their skills for DEFENSE only. Attacking a person in a sport competition is not defensive, even if you are counter attacking, since you are there to compete which is both offensive and defensive to begin with.

Another reason is because traditional martial artists have no reason to fight for glory, money, ego, pride or even stupidity. Our biggest enemy is our own self...no one else. If anyone ever gets a chance to train in Okinawa there is so much more to the Kumite than the fighting aspect but I will say that Budo when applied correctly can modify your mental attitude to overcome an adversary.

Answer 3

Because there are so few traditional dojo in the west .If you think what is being taught in 99% of dojo is traditional you are mistaken.They may have a traditional name but that is as far as it goes .

Traditional karate died with the birth of sport in the 1920's and the restictions placed on training to enable students to engage in sport.There became a tendency to interpret and analyze everything including kata thru the prism of sport even by people who should know better.

Want to learn self defense dont go to a so called traditional dojo and I dont care if it's bjj or anything else .If your main interest is fighting then you can go anywhere one is no better than the other in that sense.

Answer 4

What is traditional? Judo was founded around 1882 - 84, Taekwondo became formalized in the 1950s following the end of the Japanese occupation, JKD as a name came about around 1965... Goju Ryu has its origins at around 1900. Most of the jujutsu taught today is gendai, though forms of kobujutsu still are taught (and many of these only date back to the Edo period). Sure, all of these can be traced back to earlier influences, but how old are your traditions, really?

It's not uncommon, especially among those attempting to make a name for themselves, to call their influences by whatever name they feel best represents their fighting style. We can even see this in Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do.

Answer 5

Great question Tao, sure beats the normal drivel on here.

I think there are probably several factors that contribute to it.

I would say the first is lack of desire in many "traditional" people from really good schools to compete. I know myself that there are several factors that keep me from wanting to get in there. Number one is just plain age. Pushing 40 it takes my body a lot longer to recover from injuries then it used to, and I have a full time job that is physical that I need to be able to do to support my family. Second is a lack of desire, as compatition has never been a goal for me in my training. I know that many people say you have to test what you know, but there are many ways to do that beside the ring. When we do randori in class and I am facing full power attacks that let's me know if what I train, and what I train it for is effective.

Another factor would be the different lengths of time it takes to get to an effective stage in training. Somebody studying Muay Thai will get to a point where they could effectivly use it in the ring much faster then your average Okinawan karate person. Generally by the time a "traditional" person gets to the point where they could be effective in the ring, their outlook and the reasons they train have changed.

Still another factor is the mindsets of the instructors. Many of the good traditional instructors were brought up in the old school, where cometition to show off or stroke the ego was frowned upon. Not saying everyone who steps in the octogon is that way, but some are. The fact is that most traditional styles do not encourage competition anyway, because their focus is on an entirely different agenda then say Muay Thai. Mnay of the McDojo instructors encourage open tournament participation, however many of those today are a joke. The last one I actually attended I saw a 4th degree black belt score a point while falling down, while looking away, with a technique that wouldn't have hurt a girl scout. I don't even bother watching anymore.

I think others have hit on another factor, the intimidation factor. Karate to many of the wanna be's and fanboys is now considered a very ineffective art, no matter the style. People who actually train will tell you different, but they are not the vocal ones.

I think it is a combination of many factors that keeps the majority of "traditional" artists from good schools from competing, or stating that that is there main style.

Answer 6

great question, ive often wondered the same thing myself...

to take a specific example...i heard it mentioned b4 during ufc broadcasts and again on this board that anderson silva started tkd at age 9, (or 12, or 14, whenever) at a very young age...even though his martial arts training began there, and its his first "style", and he may even throw in some tkd kicks now and again..he primarily trains in MT, so during the months leading up to his fights, hes primarily using MT techniques and strikes as opposed to TKD...though TKD was the source of his MA training.

i dont know...

i also like james point about it being semi-tactical, and the other point made about MT seeming "tougher" and what not...whether a misconception or not this could be the case.

Answer 7

lol because they're cowering in their dojos hoping no one will figure out their 'system' doesn't work.

Answer 8

I was going to answer this but, James got it nailed. I would like to add that in tournaments " the fun ones for points" I never tell anyone I am a Wing Chun student. I let them think all I do Is TKD. It almost always  ketches my opponent off guard.

Answer 9

possibly becasuse for the ones that have taken them they give you a pitifully small info box like yahoo answers' question box or perhaps they only list the styles that they feel that has influenced and they have drawn from the most.

Answer 10

look at the old ufc first 10 or so....youll lots who get destroyed, now they realize they don't belong

Answer 11

don't really know way they do it they just do maybe they can't fit in all the styles the trained in, or maybe those are the one they most resonantly work on.