Paul literally says "By God's grace, I am the I am" so that proves he's part of the Trinity, Right?

Question

In the original manuscripts of 1 Corinthians 15:10 this is the literal reading. Modern translators cover this simple fact by representing "ho" (the Greek for "the") as "what" though no punctuation appears in manuscripts that supports the change.

In John 8:58 Jesus says "ego eimi" and people claim that his saying the phrase "ego eimi" proves he is part of the Trinity. But 10 verses later, in John 9:9, a former blind man (that Jesus cured) says "Ego eimi."

So if saying that phrase "proves" Jesus is part of the Trinity, then it must also prove that the blind man is also part of the Trinity.

Answer 1

I assume "ego eimi" means "I am?" (Sorry, but I took French in school, not Greek).

Honestly, I don't see how the fact that someone said something could count as proof.  I guess to people who believe in Jesus's divinity it could, but not in other faucets of life.  If that's all the proof someone needs, then more power to them, I guess.  

Answer 2

Ya know, this was asked and settled just a few days ago. Please, you're not this ignorant. So, don't act like it.  

Answer 3

Good point. "I am" means no more in Greek than it does in English, and people said and say it anytime they are speaking of themselves in the first person present tense.  EIMI of itself does not signal eternal existence, just existence.

Jesus was fearless, and did not have to use code language or circumlocutions when he spoke.  He said plainly that he is the Son of God.  If he is also God, he would have said that plainly as well.  Of whom is God afraid, so that he has to hide who He is?

Theologically, the EGW EIMI of John 8:58 is supposed to connect with what God said of Himself at Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint (LXX).  But there, God says EGW EIMI hO WN, not just "I am," but "I am the Being/Existing One."  If Jesus wanted to claim the Divine title at John 8:58, he would have said hO WN, not EGW EIMI.

Anyway, in the original Hebrew text of Exodus 3:14, God does not say "I am," but *ehyeh asher ehyeh*, which means most properly, "I Shall Be As I Shall Be." (Artscroll/Mesorah Tanach)  In recognition of this, Theodotion's ancient translation of the Greek Bible gives ESOMAI hOS ESOMAI at Exodus 3:14: "I will be Whom I will be."

So "I am" is irrelevant if it is supposed to connect to Exodus and claim divinity.

Jesus is divine as the Son of God, but he is not God Almighty or part of a Trinity.

God is One, not three-in-one.

The dogma of the Trinity is nowhere taught by the Bible and it is everywhere refuted by the Bible.

Answer 4

I am sure you mean well and believe what ever you said, but I believe you are looking into places you need not.

You must remember that Jesus did not come to earth to tell everyone He is God. That would have defeated the very purpose of His coming to earth, and that was to die for the sins of you, me and the whole world.

God loves the world that He did what we mortals could not do for ourselves and that was to be reconciled back to God because of our sins. It took a Perfect Being to do that. Since Jesus is God, only He could be that Perfect Being. Now, by accepting the sacrafice Jesus made on the cross by dying for our sins, we can be reunited in right standing with God.

The Trinity is not difficult when you understand Who Jesus really is and how He came to earth through the Virgin-Birth. He is the very Word of God in the flesh. He was not made from the dust of the ground as was mortal man, but came direct from heaven. And like us who are made from the dust of the ground and return to dust, Jesus is from heaven and had to return to where He came from, and that is heaven.

If you look at John 1:18, it tells you that Jesus came from the bosom of the Father. What comes from the Bosom? Our words. Since Jesus came from the bosom, would not the book of John's first chapter be right as it talks about Jesus being the Word of God.

Then you look at the Virgin-Birth and know that the seed was not the seed of man, but of God and that seed was God's own Word.

The Holy Spirit has many roles, but one is to seal the believer with the born-again experience. Jesus said unless you are born-again you cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. To be born-again you must accept the sacrafice Jesus paid for your sins and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead.

Answer 5

isn't that a dr. Seuss quote?

Answer 6

Mike C: A very short search on Google shows that he is correct in his translation.  According to the sources which put forth Jesus’ famous “I am” sayings as statements of divinity, “Ego eimi” is Greek for “I am”.  In fact, the “eimi” means “to exist eternally”.  What is so difficult to understand about that?  

http://vintage.aomin.org/EGO.html

http://www.bibletexts.com/terms/i-am.htm

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rsposse/iam...

So if the blind man indeed did use the same phrase, then he is claiming divinity as well.  You cannot make the case that Jesus was claiming divinity by using this phrase and then say the blind man was not.  It does not mean the blind man was RIGHT, only that he said it.  So I don't see the point in denying what the text clearly says.

Answer 7

Long practiced at pretending to be intellectual?  Where did you receive your degree in Greek?  It's not the simple phrase "ego emi" but rather HOW it was used by Christ as oppossed to others.  Direct me to some biblical scholars with degrees that agree with your faulty interp.  

Answer 8

I'm not sure Paul would say it that way, but there does seem to be a bit of a "god-complex" in Paul at times...

I'm concerned with your first responder - why would they report a question designed to educate?  Surely YA will ignore them...

EDIT:  I would only point out then that ANYBODY using the term "I am" would then somehow be equating themselves with God/Trinity (or octinity, as it seems to be growing)...even Neil Diamond in his song "I am, I said" could conceivably be claiming that one-ness with God.  It seems a bit convoluted, and has a dependence on what beliefs one holds as a preconception when hearing (or using) it...is there - from the standpoint of literature - an essential difference between Jesus and between Paul and between the blind beggar in John 9?  Then that should give a clue as to how to understand the usage in each case, shouldn't it?  The characters role in the story should help to define their use of that (or any other) term...

Answer 9

"ho" is a definite article it means the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc. so "what could very well be what he is saying...

also "ego" means "I" or "me" and eimi means am, have been, it is I, was.

so the phrase ego eimi means I am... and it does in the context of the sentence.. context means a lot in what people say....

Answer 10

Huh?  Is this a question?

Answer 11

Hmmm, veeery interesting. :)

Answer 12

John taught that Jesus invites all sons of God to overcome all things and sit on the throne of God.

WE can all be part of the "godhead"

if the trinity involves hundreds of sons of God then i say YES

Answer 13

You cannot use transference in that manner.  But he was proclaiming himself the Great I AM there and in 8:58, He was not referring to the blind man but to himself, and you know it.  As an LDS , we belive what you are hinting, they are separate, distint, one in purpose beings.  I am suprised you as a translator that has worked with the 5366 Greek manuscripts has not seen this come out.  Come on one of then now has a body, so the three in one comcept is.....false, they all have a body.

John 9:9 By this act of giving sight to a blind beggar Jesus, in a dramatic and irrefutable manner, proclaimed himself as: (1) The Light of the World; and (2) The very Son of God. Incident to its performance he also: Confirmed the disciples' belief in pre-existence; rejected the belief of some that physical handicaps result from ante-mortal sin; taught that his own work was assigned him by the Father; reaffirmed that he stands in judgment upon the world; and taught that rejection of light and truth bring condemnation.  

58. This is as blunt and pointed an affirmation of divinity as any person has or could make. 'Before Abraham was I Jehovah.' That is, 'I am God Almighty, the Great I AM. I am the self-existent, Eternal One. I am the God of your fathers. My name is: I AM THAT I AM.'  

Answer 14

no it doesnt...He was actually surprised to be called and was humble..

no mocking is needed...

Answer 15

That would seem to be the logical conclusion.  I always thought that the translations were done to line up with doctrine.

Answer 16

I'm okay with the King's English.  Paul and the blind man are not part of the Trinity.  Paul said, "By God's grace, I am what I am..."    

Answer 17

                                                                                                                      Not exactly, those of us true believers that have accepted Jesus into our hearts and were filled with the holy spirit became part of the body of Christ but we are not equal members of the Holy Trinity !