Pedigree Dogs Exposed Petition?

Question

Have you signed? Petition to join the European union for the protection of pets to force these breeders to stop their cruel breeding schemes

http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=144&aid=87

Answer 1

I have not signed it as I do not know what to believe, of course the programme was awful but surely all breeders are not all the same I had my last lab Benjie from a breeder who was very good, he has sadly passed away now, however after this bbc programme I have noticed on his papers that he was his family had been interbred at the time I did not know what it all meant.But I say again surely all breeders are not so careless, and I also agree with Loki.

Answer 2

Slam Dunk for Loki.

Loki says it so well!!!

Answer 3

Look - I'm about written out on all of this but I will say this programme was put together by a group of people who have had an axe to grind, for whatever reason, for a looooong time.  The moment I saw who was involved, I knew this wasn't going to be anything other than what it was - totally biased and pandering to the ignorant masses - oh look poor little doggie.  If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon like lemmings, go ahead and sign.  But remember, for every one bad apple in the barrel, there are any number of breeders who are, and have been for years, striving to improve their stock, and their breed.  And this is what makes me so upset about all this.  Why weren't they included in this programme.  I know the people involved did not know how slanted this was going to be.  I understand it was portrayed to those who were invited to appear in it, as an upbeat documentary about how the world of purebred dogs was working with science, to improve the various breeds.  As it was, I'd lay odds there's a lot of material that ended up on the cutting room floor.  I think we all know that there are some things going on that shouldn't be but the 'industry' weeds out the bad eggs, eventually.

Loki I'm with you all the way.

And finally, I feel very sad for those on here who are so easily lead by the nose and actually believe everything they read or hear, WITHOUT doing their own research.   If you really want to help the world of purebred dogs, I suggest you switch your focus to the Puppy Farms/Mills which is where most of the disasters are really coming from.

Edit - just one more thought ... do we really need to be handing over more 'power' to the Europeans?  This is exactly what signing Petitions in favour of the European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals is saying.  This Convention is h**l bent on eliminating breeds such as the Basset amongst others (unless I have misread their intentions) saying, the Basset is too low to the ground, trips over it's ears causing injury and is doomed to long-term back problems (amongst other things).  Quite apart from the fact that none of my hounds has experienced any of these problems, and normally live to be 14+, it seems to me that the intention is to change what is an ancient breed, so it ends up looking like a Beagle.  All this based on some inaccurate notion.  For this reason alone, I cannot sign up to any of this.  We certainly need leglislation to stop the worst cases of dog-abuse that's undoubtedly going on in some quarters, but I want to see this done by us - not by some faceless committee across the channel.

Answer 4

Yes

Here's the programme for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00...

Answer 5

I want to sign but would rather sign one that's directed at the government. Is there an e-petition going around?

p.s I can't believe there are breeders still trying to deny what really goes on. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves

Answer 6

For those unfamiliar with Pet Owners Parliament, it's a website designed to be used as a lobbying tool to give UK pet owners a voice that might influence parliament. To call for (or against, where necessary) change.

I have not signed my name for or against the petition, and won't until I fully understand the implications of it.

At the moment, I'm *leaning towards* being in favour, but not quite ready to sign...yet.

Whilst there were some parts of the programme that were wholly unnecessary and detracted from the main issue, personally, I'm glad the programme was aired. It revealed some shocking problems within the show world. Problems that *must* be solved if we are to have a healthy canine population.

One unfortunate side-effect of it being shown though was that some people have misunderstood the situation.

SOME breeders that breed dogs for the show ring breed cripples. SOME judges actually place cripples (which in turn encourages the breeding of yet more cripples, much like in the situation with the CKCS show featured in the programme).

That is a scandal, no doubt about it, but what it does NOT mean is that ALL breeders within the conformation world are bad. Not all dogs placed are cripples.

Whether or not the UK should sign up to The European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals is a matter for debate. ***Not*** simplistic tubthumping.

You have weakened the case for P.O.P. and for the petition with your post. Canine Welfare will not be advanced by gratuitous spite.

Answer 7

I watched the program on Youtube, and there are many good points raised, and some very broad generalizations as well.  One point that struck home, was that the UKC does not require health tests before a dog can be bred.  The same is true of the AKC.  What is not mentioned, is the huge numbers of responsible breeders who DO health and genetic testing regardless of there being no regulation by the kennel clubs, and who will not breed dogs that fail those tests.  

As far as the owners of the CKCS, the one owner who’s dog was euthanized at 5 due to syringomyelia, said that she “expected that action would have fallen into place”-- that the UKC would have required testing done, and she thought the problem would have been addressed when she bought her second CKCS a year later. MRI is the test to determine which dogs may be at risk for the condition, and there is also a protocol to screen for the heart disease MVD.   While there are undoubtedly many breeders who do not perform these tests and adhere to the protocols, there are undoubtedly many who do test.  

Why didn't the owner of the cavalier, after losing her first dog, only seek out those breeders who followed the protocols, and tested their dogs?

This program focuses those breeders in the show community, but the statistics stated regarding dogs with various genetic diseases---is a figure comprised of not only show dogs, but those from puppy mills and backyard breeders as well.  Cavaliers are not only bred by “show people”, but people with no knowledge or respect for potential health problems, who don’t avail themselves of the tests and protocols set forth.  

If testing is not mandatory, then it falls to the hands of the potential dog owner, to educate themselves and chose a breeder and dog accordingly.    For that reason, the program may have merit, to educate the public on responsible breeders, and those who are not.   But to paint all breeders with the same brush is inaccurate. When that owner states at the end that if the genetic problems are perpetuated that the CKCS may be lost as a breed---certainly no ethical, responsible breeder wants to see that happen either.

In the end, even though we are talking about living, breathing creatures, the fact is that pedigree dogs are bought and sold.  Like any other commodity or purchase, in the end it is up to the consumer to educate themselves.   Boycott by consumers of those breeders who do not test their dogs for genetic disease is the only way to force the "dog breeding industry" to comply with testing and ethical breeding protocols.

Answer 8

Yes Iv signed.and whats Loki doing to help those dogs that are treated like that. ??

Answer 9

Gregor you make a very good point!

Answer 10

oh hoho go loki i dont think anyone can top that. well i dont think i will sign cause yeah im a breeder myself a responsible one and anything that may hurt breeders seems like a betrayal to me so no. And yeah dont believe anything from BBC or on tv unless its the news a reliable news station that is

Edit- And what exactly are we, caring breeders who are trying to stop activist like you who are trashing our good name and putting are responsible breeding out of business so to speak. its not really business we truly love our dogs and are trying to better the breed whatever breed they are in. Just cause of a few bad eggs we all have to suffer its not right and all the activists should be ashamed of themselves for targeting good people.

Edit- And you assume that we are lying well we are not yes there are some bad breeders and handlers but thats no the majority and the good ones should not be the ones punished you shouldnt listen to everything you hear on tv. It sickens me to know how ignorant people are at the subject yet they try and fight it. Also dont believe a word of what PETA says there a bunch of radicals that have no clue what they are talking about and the attack good people for no good reason saying something that has nothing to do with anything.

Edit- Lol i just looked at the petition lol theres a spot to sign against it lol I say we all sign against it. Or dont sign at all lol

Answer 11

What's sickened me the most about all this is the so called respectable breeders reaction to the programme (bar a handful). Instead of making a stand against the Breed Clubs, Kennel Club and Breeders featured, they actually try to make out it's only "a few bad apples" !! Linebreeding (inbreeding) is rife in the show dog fraternity. There is plenty of published scientific research and data highlighting the damaging catastrophic effects of linebreeding, Yet we have breeders, who are supposed to care about their breed, trying to makeout it's all propaganda !

Of course I'll sign

Answer 12

It amazes me that -- considering all of the bullsh*t people put dogs through...living on wire and being bred every heat cycle, being fought and killed for sport, being skinned alive for food, being kicked and starved in someone's backyard...

considering all of this, a few "bad apples" with no genetic health ethics is the alarm you wish to raise? Punishing responsible breeders (you know, the 98% they DIDN'T show on TV) is the fight you wish to fight?

You're basing your clarion call on a TELEVISION PROGRAM, cut and edited to present the most emotional viewpoint?

Perhaps before you rouse the troops, you should do some actual research on the subject.

ADD: Adding a bunch of links from AR alarmists such as yourself really doesn't prove much, other than the fact that the internet lets anybody rant about whatever they want.

Again, it just blows my mind that -- rather than being upset by the puppy farms in Ireland, or the constant stream of abused and neglected animals coming into shelters, you'd rather target the entire purebred community over something a few CKCS and Pug breeders have done.

Did you notice that their primary focus was Toy breeds, breeds without jobs, who only have their looks as a basis for existence? And yet you'd like to punish people with working dogs, healthy dogs, for whom the Breed Standard is a guideline for type.

Seriously -- you are misguided, and if you're getting your information from the sites you listed, it's easy to see why.

ADD: redlady

I've been involved in purebred rescue for 20 years. I've assisted in shutting down two puppymills in my region. I support my local humane organizations and shelters with money and supplies. I avoid Chinese-made products (in itself, a feat). I screen homes and do house-checks. I (like every responsible breeder I've ever dealt with) perform genetic testing on my breeding dogs, and do not breed afflicted animals.

In other words, a h**l of a lot more than signing my name on a line, and nothing I have to justify further to you.

Answer 13

Go Loki!  Just a couple of things to add to that.  My boys are healthy, happy dogs with no hereditary problems, they're gundogs they have to be!  Plus!  While nobody would advocate culling healthy pups the RSPCA are not the ones to criticise anyone when they use healthy dogs to train new recruits how to euthanize dogs!  If a recruit refuses they don't get the job.  How's that for a great British institution!  And!!  How exactly do you think dogs with bad temperaments can be shown??  Do you really think Crufts is full of agressive dogs all biting people and attacking each other?  Before you start silly petitions go along to a dog show and see how many dogs are suffering or fighting, growling, biting.  It isn't allowed, if a dog so much as growls at anybody they can be banned for life from showing, and guess who bans them?  The Kennel Club!!

Please stop this sensasionalist rubbish before you do more harm.  A Witch hunt is not the way forward.

Edit* Golden Girl, I have written a very lengthy complaint to the BBC and not only asked for an apology but also that the people who have been so maligned be given the chance to retaliate.  I doubt if it will happen but we can hope.

Edit* No-one is denying it goes on Jupe but it is by far the minority!  If the programme had made that clear then I doubt if anyone would of objected but the whole thing suggested that it was all breeders of all pedigree dogs and that is just not true!!

One more Edit then I'll have to stop!!  Gregor, how many pedigrees have you actualy read?  I can show you every pedigree for every dog I've owned for the past 50 years and can prove there is no in-breeding!  I wouldn't buy a dog that was in-bred!  We KNOW it goes on but we DON'T condone it and it is the MINORITY and that can be proven!  Please check your facts and don't insult the people who do care.

Now if you want to give me more thumbs down please feel free!!

Answer 14

Signed

Answer 15

Oh yay...the BBC.

Somehow I missed that show between Not Going Out and Skins.  Both quite ridiculous and completely made up shows.  Not sure how I missed one that must be true on that channel....weird!

Needless to say, Loki nailed it right on.  Do some research before you believe everything on TV.  

And, once again, it's not the KC's job to regulate breeding, they are a registry and that is all they do!  

TU for Loki and fellow thinkers!

What's Loki and the rest of us doing to help those dogs?  Well, most of them are active in rescuing those dogs.  Are you guys?  Or are you just going to throw your trash around and buy those dogs from those people so they breed more?  If you really wanted to help those dogs, you'd stop buying your little yorkipoos and chiweenies and adopt those from a shelter.  GOOD breeders rarely breed their dogs and have waiting lists that can be more than 3 yrs, they're active in rescuing their breeds, along with showing and health testing to ensure they're only letting the best specimens breed.

What are YOU doing to help them?  Signing a stupid online petition that wont do c**p?  Why not volunteer at a shelter instead?  Sorry, actions speak louder than TU's on Yahoo Answers.  

Prove you're actually worth it instead of spouting off c**p in here.  :)

Jupe, YOU should be ashamed of yourself.  You have no idea.  Do some research, think for yourself.  Stop being a sheep.

Gregor...Linebreeding and inbreeding are not the same.  Sorry.  Do some research.  Oh and ps, I don't even breed and know that!

Answer 16

No i haven't signed and I don't plan on.

Of course KC registered does not automatically mean quality but what that programme showed was the MINORITY of irresponsible dog showers. What about those that don't even know what breed of dog their female has mated with?! Sorry but there are MUCH worse people breeding their mutts for money. If you believe all the BS the BBC airs then you'll believe anything.

200% agree with Loki.

Answer 17

Wow, Loki once again manages to leave me with nothing more to say. Well done, sister!

Edit: What is Loki doing to help dogs? Let's see, I know for a FACT that she as well as pretty much all of us that have agreed with her do far more than those that pretend to know what's going on here. I have had over 10 years experience in rescue, I have had countless foster dogs stay at my home on my own dime. I have pumped over $500 of my own hard earned dollars into my current foster dog that was left crippled due to neglect. I have more money invested into dogs that weren't even my own than my car is worth. Can any of you say that you have cleaned up someone else's mess? I doubt it.

Answer 18

GO LOKI!!!

Haven’t seen an answer like that in quite some time.

Seems the UK’s answer to everything is banning!

Sure its easy but its not working, Hasn’t worked and will never work.

I personally would not believe everything shown on the TV, Especially the BBC.

Remember when the BBC where scamming young children?

(Blue peter)

Answer 19

I cannot understand how people can defend those people shown on that TV program.  

Answer 20

yes

Answer 21

Go Loki.... great post.  

I have also noticed that  FACTS don't seem to enter into many people's decision making.  

Answer 22

As with others, I am with Loki on this one.

Answer 23

Loki has said it all - I could go on, but I'd only start ranting!

The amount of ignorance on this subject is breath-taking!

Add:

Nobody will expose me - far too boring. I breed healthy pedigree dogs who are all health tested before breeding & live happy healthy lives, usually until they are 16yrs old.

Answer 24

GO LOKI!!!!!

Answer 25

GO LOKI!!!!  You continue to amaze me with your brilliant answers.

Okay. I do not completely understand exactly what the show is about, but from what I can gather, it is targeting all breeders and the KC. WOW. How retarded can people get?  How about, instead of targeting the KC and ALL of the breeders, we focus on the puppy mills, dog fighting rings, and people who get dogs just to be able to hang up a BEWARE OF DOG sign?

To answer your question, NO, I am not going to sign. I will save my time for ones that actually do something.

Ignorant people continue to amaze me.

Answer 26

Holy h**l. Can you really not stop and think for yourself for 1 lousy minute? This is a minority depicted on this show. A minority! Go to a dog show for yourself. Work with the dogs. Talk to breeders that do health clearances. Dont just sit on your couch and eat up everything shown to you pointing blame. Who are you to even form a opinion on something you havent the slightest idea about? This is bullcrap. All of it. Dont even bother shutting down puppymills that produce dogs with health and temperament problems every day they operate. No why do that? Just go after the responsible breeders just because of a minority that was filmed on a tele show! For cryin out loud people!

Amen Loki! Praise you my dear.

~Prya's Riot

Answer 27

Once again Loki has not only answered the question with great knowledge but with distinction.

It astounds me to see that the BBC who is known for their sensationalism when it comes to reporting but also know to be very biased and only produces for shock value has not been not only rebuffed by all the wonderful breeders in the UK but a apology hasn't been asked for by them and your Kennel Club!  

Seem they got the reaction they had intended to get from the start.  which has also allowed all the Animal Rights Activists to come out of the closet too.

Where were all you people before this "program" was even aired?  You needed this kind of thing to be pointed out to you?  How sad is that!  

I don't think you'd know a Good and responsible breeder if you bumped into one on a bright sunny day.  

Pfrtt! How high is your soap box now???  You all should be stepping down and stepping up.

Petition do nothing.  If your not willing to get your hands dirty and really try to solve this problem in your country then you should just remain silent.  Talk is cheap actions speaks volumes over words.

ADD:  Good for you Shelagh!  I know many great breeders within the UK and I know they are just as angry about this one sidded program as most of the knowledgeable people in the UK are.

Answer 28

I want to sign but I can't work out how?