Personal study of kata/forms ?

Question

Simply put, is it possible to learn and understand kata/forms through personal diligent study of books, videos, diagrams, other person's comments, Etc... of various martial arts such as tae kwon do, karate, kung fu, etc.. I intend to do so for purely personal reasons, not to teach others or *show off* myself as some *master*. Im unable to afford lessons at the moment in the one I wish to study, however I do hold a black belt degree in tae kwon do, so I understand how precise movements can be and how subtle some can be missed even when viewed in books, videos and the like. What's your opinion? Should I learn what I can, or wait till who knows when and recieve personal training?

Answer 1

Interesting question.

This all depends on the way you were taught. If you learned how to break down kata - yes you can do this.

You have to have an understanding of how kata works.

To get a better understanding - kata was created to store and save techniques so you can practice repeatedly, which develops instinct.

But I have a feeling you already understand this.

The books or whatever medium you research from might not have the in-depth detail you need to have a deep understanding.

Again, it goes back to whether or not you were taught how to discover the hidden technique within kata.

Through the instruction of one of my teachers, I developed the ability to see application in arts I never studied. I see a movement and I understand what is happening. I was able to teach a friend of mine many application to his art - Shotokan, that he never knew existed.

I am not bragging, I just want to illustrate what can be accomplished with the right instruction.

Let's take a "low block" - Gedan Uke. I have wrist locks, armbar variations, kick defense and takedowns. Just from the so-called "low block".

One thing you need to do is learn the name of the technique in its native language and research the Kanji, if possible - to get a real understanding of the technique. Break it down to the very radical = which is the smallest component of the Chinese Ideogram.

For instance - the term "bu" - which many people misinterpret as "war", does not mean war at all. They use western school of thought to say that "martial" means warlike, deeming the prefix "mar" or mars = god of war. You cannot use the western mind to interpret eastern thought.

"bu" means Stop Fight! The breakdown of the ideogram suggest "putting an end to a conflict".

That is how in-depth your research has to be.

Your question doesn't appear to have the immaturity present in the first answer you received by whatever his name is. Katana did well to send him off.

You've got a huge task ahead of you.

If you need direction, email me.  

Answer 2

the most you can do is mimic what you see, but you will not have someone to correct your posture or give you the detailed info that the people willing to give it on video aren't teaching.

in my opinion you will probably just create bad habits and just be fooling yourself, these instructional videos are best as a reference of something you have already been shown in person.

Answer 3

xoenhit makes some good points.

I will point out one thing, and take it for what it's worth, but I won't tell you how to make your decision. In Japan, many of the martial arts were passed down through oral transmission (kuden) and written transmission (densho). Now, not all the techniques were necessarily demonstrated, and much of the kuden was lost. However, with a relative proficiency, the densho could be used to train the holder in those techniques not learned directly from the previous holder.

So, here's the point. With a relative proficiency, you might be able to learn the techniques. I wouldn't say you could take a background in Tae Kwon Do and learn jujutsu from written records, but you might be able to understand the basics of some forms of Kung Fu or Kenpo or Karate (this would depend largely on you).

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Answer 4

Originally kata's were used as a means to train when you had no partner to train with. It was only ever meant to be trained while alone. It's the equivelent of shadow boxing. When a boxer or kick boxer shadow boxes they are performing they're own version of a kata. It's just not something to be memorized.

The best way to train is with a partner and slight increases in resistance until you reach a point of free sparing where you neither of you are sure about what is going to be coming at you. Resistance builds instinct.  

Answer 5

Joseph s please go home, because it is obvious that you know nothing. The link you rpovided is a joke. One guy's opinion who has "some" experience with the martial arts. great comic relief, thanks for that.

As for your question if you are a Black belt in TKD why not just work on perfecting the forms you already know? I am betting you still have much to learn from them, so why would you want to know so little about other styles? The fact is that you could mimic the motions, but there would be many little things you would be doing wrong that only an instructor could correct you on.

if anything I would read or study on different styles applications for their kata's and then try and incorperate those concepts into what you already know.

Just my opinion.

Edit for Joseph s- So you havn't seen it huh? How many good karate schools have you trained at? How many advanced Okinawan karate practitioners have you worked out with? Do I make my point? You sound as if you have never done kata, so if not, what gives you the right to put it down, when you really know nothing about it except for second hand information? Kata is what let me react without thought and take a stab in the arm instead of in the neck, so quite honestly I am sold on it as long as it is trained right. If you do't want to do it, that's your loss not mine, but since you have such little actual experience, maybe you shouldn't trash it.   I also notice 6 thumbs down lol, and believe it or not, none of them were from me.

This is from the link you provided:

Kata are "forms," or rituals that are like playing solitaire, with each maneuver signifying an actual blow, kick or block. The schools usually tout this very highly, saying that it's highly necessary. I tend to view it as a time-consuming pantomime that is not conducive to learning actual fighting skills. Again, this is my opinion, but I don't see any evidence that kata abilities are related to street fighting skill.

I agree with the last statement, because karate is not for street fighting it is for self dense, and there is a big difference, but I guess a person like you, with "some"experience, wouldn't really know that would you?

Answer 6

Forget those sissy katas.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

Katana, I have not seen any evidence that katas are directly related to a person's fighting skills (although the belief exists in theory, like the Theory of Evolution).

It's my opinion, under freedom of thought, that katas can lead a person into thinking he's more of an accomplished martial artist than he or she is.

Answer 7

It depends on whose books or videos etc you want to learn from, and the level of tuition you have already received, as to your ability to interpret the meanings and translate them into actions.

You cannot learn a kata or forms from a book in 2 hours. Maybe you can copy the actions or get a sense of direction but to truly learn kata or forms there is no substitute to going to the dojo or training hall with a decent sensei or instructor.

I suspect as a black belt you know this already.  

Answer 8

personal study of kata/forms is only valid if the instructor/coach demonstrates them in person to you and explains the meaning even then it's down to your own interpretations through your own experience.

Best wishes :)****

Answer 9

sensei scandal/katana are correct you can not learn kata by simply copying .What a kata "looks" like is not what it is.I agree with you in continuing your study .Purchase a book called BUNKAI JUTSU  thru AMAZON it breaks down kata to it's hidden components mainly the heian or pinan forms depending on style but that's only a name preference .

With it you can even gain insights into your tkd kata tho the book is aimed at okinawan/japanese styles.and if you do learn the heian/pinan forms from the net or books you will at least have a deeper understanding of what they mean .

continue to train in anyway available to you.

Answer 10

Go for it, but be sure they are high quality works involving movement arrows if they are books.  A Kata manual I would reccomend, is "25 Shotokan Kata" by Shogiro Sugiyama, written under consultation from none other than Hidetaka Nishiyama, the defacto face of American Shotokan Karate.  The Kata manual is extremely comprehensive, detail and in all frankness probably better instruction than what you will receive in most schools.

The Kata of Shotokan Karate is very similar to Tae Kwan Do Poomse.  In terms of rhythm, technique, everything.  Now, Tae Kwan Do and Karate use completely different routines, nevertheless the timing, rhythm and motions, are all similar enough that you should have little trouble understanding them.  Myself I only got as far as orange belt about to test for Green in the Goju Ryu system when my club closed down so, you're considerably luckier.

I would reccomend you get "25 Shotokan Kata," which you can buy at Amazon, and I would reccomend getting, also, the Terence Dunn video of Tai Chi Chuan, the Yang Long Form.  You need to be careful, as he sells two videos; a crappy, and inefective 24 step short form, which does very little to fire up the chi, and the more sound 108 step form.  I taught myself, from scratch, the 24 step Yang short form, and let me tell you it sucks.  If the 108 step Yang Long form is a raging inferno of chi, in how it fires it up, the bastardized, 24 step PRC version of it, is litle more than a candle stick about to go out.  Do not, I repeat, do not go near the 24 step form; I found myself doing it up to 10 times just to get any feeling out of it.  With the Yang Long Form you feel like your body is on fire after only one set!

I was able to understand the Kata manual that I own, because I have taken Karate before.  I personally would not reccomend books or videos for anyone who has never received ANY instruction for at least one year, and if they do get them, only as an emergency measure to help continue training.  Good for emergencies and continuing, but not good for starting from scratch, that's what I'm saying.  

Also if you hold a black belt, you probably already know most of this stuff but, here;

http://www.amazon.com/Tae-Kwon-Do-2nd-Ma...

Personally though there is a limit to book learning, things I would not attempt if I was you;

1)  Two person drills.

2)  Breaking techniques.

3)  Limb conditioning, although, you can always try slapping yourself.  Yeah, you heard me; rub your palms together and slap yourself all over, specially your forearms, your shins, and your feet.  Bone is as strong as concrete, and the constant impact may toughen your limbs a little bit and so long as you don't overdo it, there should be no injury.  Supposedly slapping yourself fires up your chi so that you can break stuff, but, without the guidance of an instructor knowledgeable in that sort of thing I wouldn't test it...  If not chi, it does increase tolerance to pain though!

I feel that Tae Kwan Do and Karate are similar enough that, h**l, with only 2 hours of study per day every day, you may learn up to 10 forms from "25 Shotokan Kata."  If you are a faster learner than I am, you would learn a new Kata a day, instead of taking a whopping 6 hours to learn a new one.  It took me 6 hours because, see, with book learning, you have to read, execute, then read some more, then execute again checking that you got it right, and then you have to do the whole form 10 times at least (or more) to make sure its memorized.  I won't lie to you its a pain in the @ss, so you will have to set aside sundays to do it.

good luck.