Pet versus show quality pups?

Question

How come they have a character minimum now on the question title?

Anyway, I saw another question that reminded me to ask this. It was on my mind the other day. How do breeders decide which pups are show quality and which are pet quality? As 8 week old pups, don't they all look and act relatively the same? I've always been curious as to what qualities the show pups will have that the pet quality do not have, and how you can tell the difference when they are so young.

Thanks!

Answer 1

Sometimes it's just in knowing their bloodlines as to which litters might be better for show pups.  When you watch the pups play, and play with them, you can see good show traits.  I've seen puppies as young as 6 weeks that stack on their own, and gait perfectly.  It's little things like that that a breeder can and will notice.

Answer 2

Most breeders wait until 10-12 weeks to make that decision.

The more experienced breeders can have an idea of what to expect out of their pups based on what they've seen from previous litters.

Some pups will have obvious faults like an improper color or marking.

A good breeder also has show "prospects" or "potential".. meaning the pups has the potential as a show dog.  There is no 100% guarantee that a pup will turn out to be a CH dog.  There is ussually something in the show contract regarding what happens to the pup should it not proove itself to be show-worthy after all.  One girl who got a show pup from the same breeder as myself said that her contract stated that the pup was to be spayed/neutered.. and she'd be reimbursed the purchase price, minus the cost of a pet-price..  and she'd als be given first pick at a show pup from the next litter.

There were stipulations in the contract too, such as she had to show the dog so often until titled, and she had to send the breeder stacked photos monthly, etc.  I think she said the contract for that pup was something like 10 pages long (while I only had one page for my pet pup)

Pam is right too.. there are alot of breeders out there who label their pups as "show quality" just for the extra money.  Many of these breeders dont show themselves.. or may just sell "show/breeding" rights for a higher price to any pup they have.  Alot of these people think that just because it has papers, that means it can be shown.

Answer 3

When a breeder is actually a breeder, and not a meth-addicted moron who wastes away watching Spongebob and working at McDonalds, they know the difference between a show quality and a pet from the moment they start walking.

There is an "aura" around certain dogs that they can pick up on (doggy-dar!)

I mean, some of them its completely obvious which ones are SQ and which ones are PQ. The one tripping over its own feet and running into walls at 8 weeks old isn't SQ, obviously.

:)

Answer 4

Knowing the standard of the breed is very important. Most ads published on the internet claiming SHOW QUALITY are bogus. If the so called breeder doesn't show how the heck do they know pet from show quality?

You may even see ads that might say "SHOW QUALITY LITTER".... bogus also......even the best of breeders are lucky to get 1 or 2 show quality pups from a litter of 8.

The entire package is accessed! head, shape of the eyes, chest, legs, feet, top line, tail-set, temperament, attentiveness, personality. (some breeds, the length of the ears)

Most BYB's see most or all of their pups as "Show Quality". That is called Kennel Blindness and stupidity.  JMO

If you are looking for a show quality pup, you won't find it in the local newspaper and VERY rarely on the internet.

Answer 5

Actually, at eight weeks, an experienced breeder can tell much about which are pet or which are show prospects. There is about  2 day window, when you can tell the proportions he will be as an adult. You can also tell a lot about his gait/reach, balance and attitude. Any major 'show' faults are likely to have shown up by then, too.

At 13 weeks, my breed is briefly a miniature adult and can safely be evaluated. I begin selling mine at 13 weeks.

Of note to those who want pets:

When you visit a litter, you will likely be most drawn by a pup that is big, bold, sparkling, prancing, pushing the others back, and just has an attitude above some of the others. The breeder may direct you away from that pup, and you are likely to feel 'cheated' out of being able to choose the 'best'.

However, this pup is not likely to be the best PET..To show successfully, a dog needs to have this 'superiority' attitude, that tells the judge.."I'm IT..pick Me"..

That dog may be dominant, more stubborn, mischievous, crave attention, and a handful to train. You may spend your life in strife over dominance issues, especially if you are novice.

So, the most important thing, is to trust the breeder. Don't buy from a breeder you don't feel you can trust.

The best companion and family pet is the pup in the middle, neither shy or too bold, that moves in balance and gets along well with the rest of the litter. .

Answer 6

With me I could usually tell at 4 weeks old which pups were better at following a scent than their litter mates.  This was to determine which pups may be better for the hunters I had for clients.   I would tag these pups for further evaluation later. But would also encourage these pups by placing special scents around to see if they gravitated to them.  

Now as far as Pet vs Show.  I could tell usually by 6 weeks of age.  Of course I would look them over pretty good all the time. :)  What looks like an Oh Boy at 4 Weeks old can turn into a oops at 6 weeks.  LOL  By 6 weeks old I could usually tell if one or 2 pups had that something special.  I would continue to look at them and see how they further developed.  Depending as to what I was looking for in a pup for a client.

sometimes there is no "Show quality" pup in a litter.  But there may be plenty of really good hunters.  All should adhere to breed standard and should not have any major faults.

I pretty much knew by 7 weeks old what each pups potential was.

By the time they went home with their new owners at 9 to 10 weeks I was very comfortable with my assesment.

When your with a litter for up to 10 week you get know each pup very well.  Thats part of the breeders job.  

I never charged different prices for any of my pups.  

        

Answer 7

Thanks for asking I've always wondered this too.

Answer 8

Eight weeks is the perfect time to see the proportions the dog will have as an adult.  That is how people chose which to sell quickly and which to watch for a while for prospects.  The proportions of an 8wk puppy are the same proportions the adult dog will have.  

Answer 9

Where to start!  

If a breeder knows the standard for their chosen breed, has bred for quality, knows the bloodlines behind the parents (faults, desirable traits, strengths, weakness', phases to maturity, etc), and possibly has had mentors to turn to for assistance in evaluating litters, then a pup might be chosen to hold back for "potential" show possibility.  Show potential pups do not come in every litter no matter how carefully the dogs are bred.  

This chosen pup is then monitored closely and if just one fault begins to develop, the pup is then placed in a pet home or possibly kept for breeding if the fault is not serious.  Often the pup is over 6 months of age before a decision is made one way or the other.  And then you have to hope that the pup has "presence" and "attitude" to make it in the show ring.  

Pet quality pups in a litter are spotted quickly by an experienced breeder.  An improper ear set, tail carriage, unlevel topline, a slightly turned out paw, improper muzzle angle, etc. are very noticeable at an early age.  These pups can be immediately sold as pets because the potential for breeding or show is not there and will not change for the better in the future.

This is just touching the surface of the topic, but you get the idea.  

Answer 10

Swamp poodles nailed in on the head.  some faults like coloring ears, head shape etc are rather obvious. And in some cases you have to wait til the puppy is older. It all comes to years of experience and working with the breed and other breeders.

Answer 11

I've wondered that too.  When I got my Japanese Chin I thought she was the most beautiful puppy in all the world and how she would be anything but show quality was beyond me.  According to the "experts" she has mis markings in her coloring and she is a bit too heavy at 8.5 lbs. But, I don't care.  I don't want to breed her anyway, and she is still the most beautiful Japanese Chin in all the world.

Answer 12

You've got some great answers... I'll add a bit to them-

Not only can a good breeder tell the difference between pet and show quality.. but they also may not completely agree which is the top pick.  One may weigh head structure a bit over body structure and another may demand absolutely perfect markings over structure, yet another may weigh a heavy coat over everything.  I tend to evaluate my dogs for structure first, then temperament, then head and coat.  I figure they have to work for me-- and looking "pretty" is secondary-- of course that also takes into account they are already high quality so its not as if they won't fit the standard anyhow.

Answer 13

Ah!  But to the trained eye, they DON'T all look and act the same!  Years of studying and listening and s******g up(!) will teach you the little differences that make a top dog different from a nice pet.  There's little ways of moving, the length and angulation of the bones and joints, there's tiny nuances in the heads that are discernible to the connoisseur of the breed.  Little differences in coats, and feet, and noses and ear sets...personality quirks that relate back to the great dogs in their lines...it's all in how you see...not how they look to anyone else.  There's that....something...that just can't be described.  Good Q Amerz.  No good answers though.  LOL

Answer 14

I assure you, they do not all look alike.

I used to work in a kennel that bred and boarded field labs.  At times there were around 20 labs in that kennel and I could tell every single one of them apart.  (I will admit, they were at least adults but to the untrained eye they're simply all labs)

When I picked out my x-bf's rottie puppy, I could pick him out of the litter of 8 at any time once I chose him at about 5 weeks of age.  (my bf would get all worried and tell me not to put him down with the other puppies in case we couldn't figure out which one he was...lol)  

Nobody is going to have the ability to do it unless they simply spend the time with the dogs...it's the only way to learn.

Answer 15

It comes from knowing and understanding your breed.  A reputable breeder has seen so many puppies grow up, they tend to be able to spot the strong/weak points of a puppy very early on.

Of course, some faults are immediately obvious- mismark coat colors, missing toes, colors of noses, etc.  There are other things that dogs can (and usually do) grow out of.  Just like in standard poodles- their chests don't tend to drop until they are around 2 years old- because of that, they tend to be a little easty/westy as puppies- which is better than being straight as a pup- as the feet will turn back in as the chest drops.

It comes from experience- and is a guess- sometimes the breeder will hold onto a pup and wait and see.  Our youngest- the breeder held onto until he was 16 weeks- to see how he developed.

Answer 16

By knowing their breed standards and experience breeding and raising pups.

My field trail female weim is blue. A color fault in conformation showing. Since I had no intention of conformation showing I was looking for hunt ability we took her.

Looking at her when she sits one of her front legs toes out very slightly. Not enough to make her move funny or have any issues but enough that if she was silver she would most likely not ever earn her CH title as that leg is slightly off. You could tell that at about 12 weeks.

Tail set and head size and shape and eye shape ear length all of these things make up a show quality pup.

Good breeders sell them as show prospects with very long contracts about how much and how often they will be shown.