Priming a pool pump or unclogging it - air lock or debris clog??

Question

Hopefully Scubabob or another pro can help me solve this cheaply.

I have an in-ground oval 20 yr old pool. It has a sand Triton filter system with 1 skimmer & 1 drain at the 10ft deep end . approx. 30 ft from it to the pump or more (straight vs pipe twists and turns.) The pump is above the pool level by a ft only. It has a hayward Viper cleaner & pump for it too.

I've been nursing this system along for years. Presently I have no flow of water and 0 pressure. I know the suction has been having issues the last 5 yrs getting worse & worse & I've been replacing parts little by little over the years. Last time it did this I put a hose into the sucking end of the pump where the filter and metal top are - when it filled, I'd quick put the metal cap on & it would work. I've tried putting hose water in the skimmer, sand filter, pump filter, etc - no go. air or debris? (new hose vac. to main skimmer clogged main line5x this weekend but cleaned pump filter) Best solution? Drain King

Answer 1

JRT. No water flow at all? Don't just go by your filter pressure gauge. They fail and it simply may not be reading.

It could be any number of issues ranging from a leak in the suction line to a shaft seal on the pump. It's also possibly a lid O ring or a pump drain plug with a bad seal. It may even be pump impeller blades that are bunged up with debris.

All of these, I'd investigate first since they're easiest for a non (pro to deal with. Check the plumbing in front of the pump. A suction leak above ground level sometimes reveals itself when you prime the pump, turn it on briefly and shut it off. Listen for a wet hiss as water travels back towards the pool and draws air into the line. A shaft seal can be difficult to diagnose if it's been damaged badly. If you noticed water under the pump for no apparent reason, that's usually an indicator of one going bad.  Look for nicks or cracks in pump lid O rings. If this is a Jacuzzi magnum pump, peel off the side stickers and look for cracks in the pump housing ( famous for it).  Remove both pump drain plugs and inspect their seals ( it'll either be a rubber gasket or just teflon tape on the threads. While you're there look for cracks in the housing where they insert. For the pump impeller, this can be difficult to check on some pumps. Some require disassembly, others, like Hayward Super pumps are easy. With power to the pump locked out, stick a finger in the business end. Feel any pine needles or leafs that made it past the pump basket? If so, you'll need to take it apart to clear them out of the blades.

And finally, yes, it could be a line blockage. A plugged up line  usually sounds "different". You may hear surges or the pump may just sound extremely loud and struggling. It's difficult to describe in words. In this case, yes, a drain king, plugged into the plumbing in front of the pump, directed towards the skimmer and a  #10 rubber bong for most skimmers with a 1 1/2 suction, at the skimmer held in only by hand. DO NOT tighten it in. Let the pressure in the line build a bit and then release that bong. It may take several shots, but that debris HAS to go back out the way it came. If that fails, time to get a pro in. He'll have compressed air, which usually dislodges most things and he can also pressure test that line, which can reveal and locate and under ground suction leak, if that's what it turns out to be.

Good luck

Edit: System 3's are excellent cartridge filters. Huge capacity and can pretty well run an entire season without the need for disassembly and cleaning until fall.

Ok...regards the shaft seal. If the one you have in there was known to be bad, that's a definite issue and will certainly have an effect when trying to prime the pump. Other than that, it seems you've managed to eliminate everything else as a cause except a blockage.

You should be able to find a Drain King ( that's a brand name) or similar device in a decent plumbing shop. All the one's near me seem to stock it, in both sizes. Failing that, there is an alternative that some pool shops carry. It's a #10 rubber bong with a standard garden hose attachment. They work as well, but you'll need a second person to hold it in the plumbing ( assuming 1 1/2 inch here), since it has no exterior bladder that expands and creates a seal , like the Drain King does. Just in case you're having difficulty explaining what a Drain King is, to your local suppliers, here is a link to a photo of one. http://www.acehardware.com/sm-drain-king...

I've usually only seen them sold singularly, without the adapters.



Re: Pump drain plugs

Most decent pumps will have two drain plugs meant for draining the pump basket area and the impeller housing. If the seals on these go ( rubber cracked or actual pump housing cracked where they thread in) it'll draw air in there making a prime difficult or impossible.  One will be located  at the front or right side front, the other will be right side rear or directly behind the strainer housing, depending on the make and model of the pump.

One last note here. If you're having problems still and have to wait for a service guy for a bit, you can always do a suction bypass. That will at least have your pool running and keeping clear until the day he can get there. It's sometimes as easy as using a vac hose ( no holes in it), running it from the pool, over the deck, (weighted down in the pool with your vac head attached) to your pump and hooking it up with a gear clamp and a 1 1/2 inch male barbed adapter. You may have to soak the hose end in some boiling water to make it a little pliable, to fit easily over the adapter. This way, you're running, heating and chlorinating, just not skimming. It'll keep the green away until you've got your problem solved. It can still be an air lock ( using your vac over an open main drain that has a hydro stat valve can do that as the valve can pop open, introducing air from under the pool ( yes...there is an air pocket down there sometimes). The service guy will eliminate all the possibilities I've mentioned, then get his pressure testing gear out, check the line. If it's good, he'll use that same gear to blow out the obstruction.

Edit:

Plumbers snakes rarely work. There is a 90 degree elbow somewhere between 6 inches and a foot and a half below that skimmer. It's been my experience that a snake will never negotiate that 90. The noise you hear using the drain king is normal. They do tend to sound like a flea giving birth to a cat. You should be using the drain king from pump to skimmer. Not skimmer to pump. You want that obstruction ( which it is most certainly sound like that's what it is) to blow back the way it came. To the skimmer. You can also use it, as you've found, as a way to prime that pump too.

Answer 2

******Sounds to me like its time to hire an expert to diagnose and repair this issue once and for all.  I have done what you've mentioned in order to nurese a system along, and eventually there comes a time when the system will not prime.  Usually, there are air leaks in places that I did not find.  Check the lid to the filter especially, and you may try new gaskets in this area as well as on filter caps.  Otherwise, as I said, you need professional assistance.  I have seen the impeller wear down to the point that priming was not possible anymore.  There are a lot of possibilities here, and by eliminating each one, you may get lucky.  

GOOD LUCK!