Problems with the Aikido Irimi-Nage move?

Question

I have been learning Aikido for the past 1.5 years, and up till now, I still have problems executing the Irimi-Nage competently. Somehow, I have this impression that MY irimi-nage doesn't really. I have practiced with better aikido-ists, and I have found people who can do it well.

Some of the good things they have done:

1. Catching of pressure points by the side of the neck

2. Catching my jaw and turning my head to the side to off-balance me

3. Use of massive brute strength to bring me down.

4. Sinking of weight as they pull me down.

So far, I can feel my own irimi-nage making slight improvements. But I have this gut feeling that it isn't very good. It can be very frustrating at times when I know I am not able to bring down a nage if he really resists.

Do fellow aikido-ist face similar frustrations with their irinage move? Care to share pointers?

Answer 1

I've been doing Aikido for about 7 years now and to be honest, I have problems with all the techniques... they aren't perfect yet.

On the other hand, they never will be perfect - there is always room for improvement.

Specifically, Irimi-Nage is often called 'the 20 year technique' in that after doing it for 20 years, you just might have established a glimpse into it.

A few pointers I got from my instructors that helped me are:

1.) Its like you are catching a ball and turning around to run it down the field.  The head is the ball and the body just follows the head - control the head and you control the body along with it.

2.) If you are taller, bring uke up and if shorter bring uke down.  Bring them to where you are comfortable and balanced yet they are not.

when you step into your tenkan, that is the moment uke is moved.  It doesn't matter the point of contact you have.  Usually, its the head, but not always.  The general form is what makes it Irimi-Nage rather than a specific method of controlling the head.  Even the final part of the throw itself may or may not involve head control.  Balance control absolutely, but maybe not as much the head as you think.

Remember, its control of the entire person that matters rather than control of a specific part of the person.  The head is a relatively easy way to control the body, but don't think about the head itself - think about the entire body.

As far as some of the good things you saw...

1.) The neck pressure point is pretty effective indeed.

2.) Again, the head is just a tool to gain control of the body.  What you describe is what happens to the head when you treat it like you are catching a football and turning.

3.) I wouldn't consider using mass and strength good things.  They are great tools to have, but if you train in a way that you require them, they are not tools but crutches.

4.) Sinking weight is great if you are shorter than uke.  If you are taller than uke, then you must still sink your weight, but your energy goes up - you become grounded as you spiral uke up and off his/her feet.

Answer 2

irimi nage is as every movement in aikido built up from the hip you need to check that your hip is set behind your opponent since it kind of functions as a hinge over which you are going to throw your opponent

the problem with a move like irimi nage is that their are countless variations and some teachers teach a little differently than others.

one of the pointers you gave however is always dead wrong.  aikido never results to brute strength.  It defies the purpose of the art.

using presure points is not very common but not unheard of.  e.g. yonkyo uses pressure points in the wrist.  but back to irimi.  The most basic technique is taught in our class is to bring the opponents ear towards your shoulder and then lift and twist the arm over his head, pretty much as you described.  it's one of the techniques where I would not recommend sinking weight as a good straight position here is important.  If you really feel that it isn't good just ask your partner to try and resist you and work on your weaknesses from there on.