Question for BJJ people.?

Question

Please forgive the edits, it's late lol.

Answer 1

As a BJJ practicianer I don't think I find myself doing this, however I do feel arrogant sometimes in the face of many other "traditional" styles like ATA TKD and so forth.  BJJ was crafted from Judo by Helio as a means for a smaller person to defend himself against a larger person.  Of course, BJJ grew to encompass a myriad of very effective ground techniques that was proven time and time again.  The Gracies defend the art because it's technically their family's honor.  Anyone outside that group aside from the Machados shouldn't have any reason to be arrogant about BJJ.  I find to be a very effective grab bag of skills to add to my sets but it is by no means the most complete art, see UFC for examples.  My instuctor is a direct student of Helio and Rickson Gracie and we are taught never to use BJJ to show off.  Competition is one thing, but there is no call for being a jerk.

I personally believe that all arts have their strong and weak points.  People who claim to represent BJJ and act like asses should get be mataleaoed.

Answer 2

Punks with an internet connection who talk too much, train too little, and never learned common civility.

Yeah it's late here too.  Cheers.

And I agree with judomofo.

Answer 3

Interesting comments.  Even though I studied the four aspects of traditional combat, empty hand, sword, horsemanship, and archery, I never had to renact getting off the horse, falling off the horse, or anything else done with or without the horse.  LOL!

As for the respect issue, people just like to hear themselves talk.  The same guys who can be jerks one time could be reasonable another.  But the most likely ones to be obnoxious and rude are the "true believers."  They're loud and obnoxious because they want to convince themselves that they are invincible merely because they're associated in some way to a big name champion.  

There's a bunch of us who are hosted by a wealthy student of mine at every big UFC event.  Most are just boistrous, intermediate level practitioners.  Most don't understand anatomy and are only looking for BJJ techniques.  They're kind of like Met fans or Yankee fans, boistrous and loud, but they don't mean any disrespect by it.  But, they can be quite threatening, because they are young, beefy, and testosterone driven...

Another thing is bias.  Normally rational individuals can get rather upset and irrational by questions that apparently single out their style or a closely associated style.  The old saying, "Everything begins with Rei and ends with Rei" (rei=courtesy or bow) needs to be taught at home, except that parents feel that once children are turned over to teachers, their jobs are done.  Except that teachers aren't allowed to discipline or punish students.  So they send the kids to karate schools, except that "tough" disciplined teachers are labeled "negative", or "red-necks" and are  threatened with lawsuits.  So when can we start teaching courtesy, if not right now?  How can we teach this if not by example?

Correction, BJJ was not created to be tops on the street.  Maeda not Gracie created it, and used randori (or freestyle) to promote his art against other arts in friendly one on one competition.  It has since evolved to match the rules in many types of mixed-style contests--and by the way, they exert tremendous weight in the rules making committees of various organizations, such that much of the danger and advantage of the dirty fighter, brawler, or karate expert has been removed.  The rules have also evolved, and the convergence is at BJJ.

  

UFC would look very different if eye gouges, fish hooks, hair pulling, ear pulls, groin strikes, neck twists, tailbone kicks, and striking while an opponent is falling or kicking a downed opponent were allowed.  But if it were, BJJ would probably implement those techniques as well.  Such is the nature of sport.

By the way, they should lower the weight classes quite a bit, there's no reason why a flyweight should be 165 lbs or whatever.  You'll never see your best level of technical excellence if the athletes spend 6 hours a day bulking up and 3 hours a day practicing.

Anyone who has been to a local karate tournament will tell you that real middleweights, at about 155-165 lbs have more than enough power to really hurt someone, and that the best fighting happens at the lighter divisions, if you're quick enough to catch the action.

Regards everyone!

Answer 4

Must be the lower level practicioners. How often do you hear about guys like Jacare, Cobrinha picking fights and acting arrogant. MOst people at my BJJ place are extremely nice people who just want to learn practical self defense.

Answer 5

Well, you have seen my answer to this a few hundred times.

The funniest thing to me is the people who are slamming people for not having respect for people, are in fact not being respectful of people by slamming their lack of respect lol.

"Those d**n BJJ guys are so disrepectful, hasn't anyone taught them to be respectful of other arts and people like Karate has, they don't even realize that it will never work on the street like Karate does and that BJJ is worthless, all those BJJ guys are is disrespectful punks!"

Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy there?

To me it is like the Atheist who are so ardently opposed to Christianity because they feel Christianity is judgemental... not realizing that they themselves are being just as judgemental... The same as people who are against a cross on a public building is "being intolerant to other religions" are in fact, being intolerant to Christianity.

Tolerance works for ALL thinks. Tolerance means tolerating the intolerant as well, and respecting ALL beliefs... but that is a whole other thing...

As far as all this goes...

Vocal ignorant minorities usually prove themselves to be so. The BJJ nutriding train is usually filled with passengers and drivers who have done very little to no BJJ.

The same as the Ninjitsu is the most dangerous art in the world nutriding train is filled with non ninjas, and the "Dillman death touch Dim Mak will make you p**p yourself train is filled with people with no basis in reality.

I guess I would ask other more serious practitioners how they felt about other so called Elitist when they slam any art or talk about "Combat sports" as they are somehow less effective than breaking boards as far as being more effective in the dangerous "streets".

I imagine our answers would be similar, that being a rolling our eyes sort of thing. I have been around enough that people shouting stupid stuff from the roof tops doesn't offend me anymore. The same as same as Ann Coulter doesn't truly represent the Right Wing and Moveon.org doesn't truly represent the Left Wing. The "BJJ IS THE BEST" guys are an extremist group, the difference is they are mostly non practioners, or guys who have just started doing and doing it because they are convinced it is the best because it is the flavor of the month.

The same as people giving answers about Krav Maga (despite never having studied it) as being the end all of self defense. Or Systema (despite not knowing a d**n thing about it).

It's the same as the crowd that asked when Houston Alexander was going to get his title shot after his second fight, the same as the people who think Kimbo is the messiah of all things fighting, and the same as those who believe Bruce Lee could beat any man living or dead.

They don't represent the whole, they are the lunatic fringe.

Meaning not every Martial Artist things Bruce Lee would hand Fedor his ***. Not every BJJ practioner thinks that it would be great in the street against a 300lbs gorilla. (It wouldn't btw, hard to armbar big strong guys...) The same as Ueshiba wouldn't have said that Aikido was the end all on the streets.

Unfortunately the internet has given anonymity and a voice to the morons who can hide on the internet and make any outrageous claim or say what they want.

If I went by the what I hear the vocal minority on here say, I would think that every Traditional Martial Art feels it is the most deadly in the street, that no TMAist has any respect for MMA. And that apparently every TMA person out there has been beat with bamboo Shinai and been the ultimate picture of discipline.

I would also believe that Shaolin Monks were the greatest fighters the planet has ever seen.

Honestly I don't think it is ANY Martial Art or Dojo's place to teach respect for OTHERS. I think that is up to yourself, and your parents. I think a Dojo should REINFORCE it, but not be the sole source of it.

Also people who think that Traditional Arts respect all other Arts are massively fooling themselves or understanding the history of other arts. There used to be some serious battles against schools disrespecting other. Tons of Dojo storming, Challenge matches and the like. h**l among many arts there is rivalry just between organizations. (Oh those ATA guys don't know c**p, us WTF guys are the ones who know..)

People like to pretend that every instructor is out there blasting people with Shinai if they dare disrespect another school. When in fact it is far from it. EVERY PLACE JUDGES OTHER PLACES. It is up to an individual to have their own opinions and make them.

I can't tell you how many times I have walked into schools mentioning my background and gotten grins and snickers, and told how "Well we do things differently than there... heheh, we don't train for the ring". Trust me, these attitudes are prevalent amongst all Martial Arts, because by nature they are in competetion with each other.

BJJ teaches just as much respect for others as ANY other art does. While everyone may have their own judgements, a good Sensei is impartial, or even complimentary of someone's background, as it gives him an idea of how to cater moves and instruction to that individual. More often then not though, even at the instructor level of all Martial Arts, you have instructors who have been doing an art for many years and see other arts as inferior, and why wouldn't they? Would they be honest and go "Well yeah, you would kick my ***, but I enjoy this..."  no, they do what they do because they feel it gives them an edge.

Individual Martial Artists, MMA practioners especially as most of them understand the value of cross training, should be the ones to establish their own humility, even regarding those of other arts.

Trust me, I have had  Karate instructors who were the strictest of disciplinarians absolutely disrespect the h**l out of other arts. I have had Krav instructors laugh at me when I tell them my background. (Mostly stateside ones that never spar).

But I have also had guys totally cool, and very respectful, and those are the ones that make an impression on me. Not the closeminded ones.

Ultimately it is about being open minded, and realizing that everything has something of value.

You find close minded people on every side of the fence. And you find woefully uninformed people who are closed minded despite having no experience in the subject they are close minded about.

Usually the people who are open minded just shake their heads at those who are close minded. It doesn't bother me the BJJ nutriders, because there are Aikido, Ninja, Chi Attacks, Krav Maga, and various fighter nutriders on here in abundance as well. Usually I hope my logical arguments to some of the more outrageous claims will help people see a different side to an argument, and generally are for other people reading then the asker. (Hence the reason I put so many rebuttals to other people's answers, especially ones that I feel are dangerously uninformed, and that someone reading it would be harmed by beleiving).

Well that is my little book, my opinion of these people is probably the general opinion that any one has of extremist or the close minded lunatic fringe. I generally ignore them, because I feel most people will see insanity for what it is. Those who aren't smart enough or experienced enough to seperate the crazies from the sober ones, will eventually be able to in time. At least I hope so.

I could go on, but this is long enough and I think you got the point.

Answer 6

im relatively new to the game(BJJ and Y/A), but as a humble adult with a child of my own, i can see where your frustration is rooted in people bragging and being stubborn.  It kind of goes hand in hand with the other questions i have seen you ask recently, about credentials and people answering without real knowledge and giving unassuming people bad advice......

All in all though, I have not seen this displayed at my school or with anyone in it. And furthermore, what percentage of BJJ practitioners go on yahoo answers?  By that i mean, how many people who answer these questions and give us the bad impression are actually responsible people who train hard and have been willing to accept other martial arts and others opinions?? I mean the only reason i can answer these questions is because i work on a computer, so how many humble students and teachers do you think there are out there that work in construction or customer service jobs...the point is whoever these immature creatures are giving us this bad name they dont represent the whole, they dont even represent the half or a quarter of "real" practitioners out there...

thats why i dont put any rankings or titles next to my sources when i answer these questions...because martial arts isnt so i can be called something its just for my own piece of mind...

My instructor is the most humble guy ever and since our school is also boxing, its a given that we all appreciate different styles...you just have to when you think about martial arts logically...anything can happen in a fight(street or ring) or a real life self defense situation, to not have respect and a good mind is a terrible obstacle...

Answer 7

I saw your response to this question

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

it would seem that there are a few people like this who browse around this section but from my experience not many BJJ practitioners are like this.

I've been training for a while now and the people I train with have respect for the other arts.

I would imagine anyone who believes that we study BJJ to "kick peoples heads in" has little or no experience in the art or any martial art. BJJ is well known for being a popular style taken up by MMA fighters which is why fanboys of the UFC will automatically assume that anyone who practises it is invincible.

But to reiterate, I train in the UK and our instructor doesn't need to teach us respect as a seperate entity. Many of my fellow students cross train and are open minded about the martial arts in general and we don't brag about BJJ being the "ultimate art"

Its a shame that people would want to represent us that way but anyone who is serious about BJJ would not adopt such a childish attitude. Not from my experience.

Answer 8

I first want to say I agree with pretty much everything JudoMofo said.

That being said I know that my attitude definitely comes off as presenting BJJ as being superior to Kung Fu, Ninjitsu, TKD, etc... I try not to be too much of a jerk about it, but I also don't let people make baseless claims of effectiveness with no evidence because at heart all martial arts are about fighting. Each one was created as a way for smaller, weaker people to defeat larger, stronger people. Considering how much respect the assorted branches of Kung Fu have shown each other in the past the current MMA/BJJ Haters might as well be everyones best friend.

Answer 9

Hello Katana:

The new wave of NHB fighters have shown no loyalty to any discipline, so I don't think the problem you talk about is limited to BJJ only.

Cross training cherry picks from all the arts.

BJJ has shown to be the most effective in cage combat style fights, is it real world? Maybe, maybe not. Against the Kimbo Slices of the world, most definitely.

My BJJ instructor had a BB in "classic" karate. He said for his final exam he had to re-enact a dismount from a stallion and present his sword to a king.........he thought it was a dog and pony show, and chuckles every time he tells that story.

Thinking back most BJJ students had little respect for the other arts, at least the outsiders who came and trained with us, as it just didn't work against BJJ. I have yet to see a karate guy effective from his back or off his feet and neither has the MMA world.

Personally I respect the fact someone trains in karate or other arts.

Answer 10

take it to the streets in the worst part of town. then tell everyone how wonderful your martial art is. if you can even move your jaw to speak or your fingers to type.

Answer 11

because of my background in Capoeira I have had a few intiations  and workshops in BJJ and found it to be very interesting in case of real close contact, but the system is in no way complete nor perfect.  If you know how to strike properly you can keep even experienced people at bay with a proper punch if you keep your cool when he moves in.  Even this weekend we got a workshop from a seasoned Bjj fighter with experience in Vale Tudo (the real deal UFC from Brazil) and more than once I found myself in a position seeing an opening for a punch to the kidneys, liver or stomach or knee him in the back at one instant (out of respect I refrained of course).  The joint locks are effective but crude, I've had my own capoeira teacher try a few on me at times and no matter how he tried he failed to excert pressure me, but then again if, like me, you have 10 years of experience in aikido you need to know how to do a proper joint lock to really get to me.

as I said it's a good system, but in no ways perfect

Answer 12

I shall now explain the mysterious super deadly ninja pressure point dismounting the horse technique!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a mouthful of coffee when I read that I think I blew most of it thru my nose laughing.

As long as there are instructors teaching c**p like that and purporting to know "secrets"which they will reveal to you after many years of *** kissing obedience not to mention lots of money any martial art will appear ridiculous and useless bovine scatology .

The ones who put down other styles while claiming one style to be the ultimate know little and some times absolutely nothing about any style.

They see or read or were even exposed to useless c**p and think that represents all martial arts .Got to give them credit they can recognize bull when it's put before them their mistake is in assuming that bull is real martial arts.

I have read and studied the lives of many of the original OKINAWAN and JAPANESE  martial arts masters .Not one ever said or claimed their ideas or style of teaching represented the ultimate unbeatable way.

That has been left for some of the losers who came after them who use false claims to sell memberships .

Answer 13

This type of question normally brings out the best practitioners and art has to offer rather then the wanna be couch ninjas. I eagerly await the answers as well. Good question man.

Edit- KJV-  With the exception of your last line, that seems to be the same old response. Brag about how good we are,  and give multiple examples of how non-BJJ stink. Do you see a difference between the first answer and yours?

Edit- Judomofo- So to sum all that up, Every art has its crazies, BJJ instructors teach the same level of respect and other art teaches and you have a hard time with an arm bar versus a 300lb primate. Nice job there.

P.S. I need the next lesson in your Judomofo Chi ® development system, I've sent you the prepaid envelope.