Question for Messianics... I am a gentile and wish to marry a Jew who would like me to convert.?

Question

I would like to be Jewish and follow the holidays and rituals but would always maintain my salvation...can this be acheived in your opinion?

Answer 1

Salvation -- like believing in Jesus Christ as your savior?  I don't think so.  As I understand it, the Jewish faith doesn't recognize JC as anything more than a regular dude.  I studied to convert to Judaism when I married my now ex-husband, and I struggled with this issue, too.  It's hard.  Really hard.

Answer 2

Let me be really clear:  ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚€ÂœMessianic Jews”, “Jews for Jesus”, etc., are **not** Jewish.  Period.  They are Christians, many of whom, under false pretenses, aggressively seek to convert Jews and descendants of intermarriage to Christianity in a way that many of us find invasive, disrespectful, and anti-Semitic.

Before I even get to what Jewish law says about these impostors, consider this:  not only does every Jewish organization completely reject them as Jewish, but so do a fair number of Christian groups (see links 2-4 below).

If no Jew thinks that you’re Jewish, and even some Christians don’t, then how can you possibly think that you are?  And if one thinks that this rejection is a recent phenomenon, think again!  Even St. Ignatius, of the 2nd century, felt the same way!  In his Epistle to the Magnesians he wrote:

“Never allow yourselves to be led astray by false teachings and antiquated and useless fables. Nothing of any use can be got from them. If we are still living in the practice of Judaism, it is an admission that we have failed to receive the gift of grace…To profess Jesus Christ while continuing to follow Jewish customs ***is an absurdity***…[L]et us learn to live like Christians. To profess any other name but that is to be lost to God…For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism.”

And now for what **we** say:

Most Jewish scholars agree that you cannot convert away from Judaism (there are a minority who say you can convert away). However, this by no means implies that a Jew who joins another religion has the same standing as a Jew who has remained Jewish. A Jew who practices another religion, whether it be Christianity (in any of its forms, including Messianic "Judaism"), Islam or anything else, is known as an "apostate." An apostate is someone who has removed themselves from the Jewish people by joining another faith. The apostate cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery. Nor can the apostate be counted for a minyan, the minimum of ten adult Jews (or adult Jewish men, depending on one's denomination) needed for saying certain prayers. For nearly all practical purposes, they have the same status in the Jewish community as non-Jews. The only difference is that they do not have to undergo a full conversion to rejoin the Jewish community, though there is a process known as "Teshuvah" that they must go through to come back to the Jewish community with full Jewish status.

So, once we delve into Jewish law we see that a Jew who joins another religion, though still Jewish, has ostensibly the status of a non-Jew and is no longer able to participate as a full member of the Jewish community. The apostate has the weakest of all grasps to their Jewish identity, they are Jewish by birth but otherwise have no position in the Jewish community.

This then brings us to a discussion on the difference between "doing Jewish" and "being Jewish." By "doing Jewish", I am referring to someone who is actually practicing Jewish beliefs and laws. By "being Jewish", I mean someone who has been born Jewish. Now, there are many people who are born Jewish but are not practicing Judaism. For instance, if a Jewish person murders a family, the Jewish person may be "born Jewish" but certainly was not "doing Jewish" as murder is a violation of the Ten Commandments.

Similarly, we can see examples of this in the Jewish Bible. The prime example of this would be the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf at Mount Sinai. These individuals were unquestionably Jewish by their birth, thus we can argue that they were "being Jewish." However, were they "doing Jewish?" The Bible is quite clear that these individuals, though born Jewish, were not practicing Judaism. The worship of the Golden Calf, though it was a monotheistic form of worship, was clearly a violation of the Biblical law regarding the making of idols. Thus, they were not "doing Jewish." Similarly, in the Prophets we see countless reprimands of people who were undeniably Jewish by birth, but had entered into apostasy by worshipping gods such as Baal and Ashtoret. They were not "doing Jewish" but "doing pagan" and had violated the very underpinning of Judaism. That they were "being Jewish" by their birth was clearly not sufficient. One must also "do Jewish" in their actions.

Along the same lines, many of Jesus' original followers were unquestionably born Jewish. However, by adopting non-Jewish beliefs, such as thinking that Jesus was a god (a violation of several places in the Jewish Bible, Numbers 23:19 and Hoshea 11:9 provide a few examples of this), were no longer "doing Jewish." The same is true for individuals in the Messianic movement today. The Messianic movement was created by Christianity, and its beliefs and values reflect Christianity. By practicing Messianic "Judaism", the individual who was "born Jewish" is no longer "doing Jewish." They have removed themselves from the Jewish community by their practice and beliefs. Unfortunately, too few

Answer 3

Have you gone to the Jews for Jesus site http://www.jewsforjesus.org/contact

and emailed them your question?  If you haven't then I would do so ASAP.  I've talked with a few Jews for Jesus and they've all been very nice and open.  Their belief system is that although they're Jewish they also believe that Jesus is the son of God.  In my opinion I think it probably can be done but how does the man your planning to marry feel and also how does his family feel about this?  Many Jewish people don't believe that Messianic Jews are truly Jewish.

I hope you find your answer.

Answer 4

If by maintaining salvation you mean continue to believe in Jesus, then absolutely not.  There is no way to convert to Judaism while believing that Jesus is the messiah, god, the son of god, a prophet, or anything else other than possibly an individual itinerant preacher a couple of thousand years ago.

It sounds like you have no real desire to convert to Judaism other than as part of being with your boyfriend/fiance.  On a personal level, this is not a good reason to convert.  Also, any decent rabbi and/or rabbinical court would reject a proposed conversion that was based on this motivation.  Nothing against you personally -- it's just that sincerity in wanting to be a Jew is the whole core of the conversion.

Answer 5

no, because then you haven't really converted.  You've only paid lip service to your new religion and you won't be entering your new marriage in an honest way (you'll be committing the sin of blasphemy--taking the Lord's name in vain.  Swearing to follow the path of a new faith while still believing something else in your heart.)  

I'm sure conversion is not easy and I imagine it is difficult to go to a new belief system and try to forget what you have spent a lifetime learning.  I'd say that if you are ONLY converting so that you can get married then maybe you ought to hold off on the marriage just now.  Don't convert until you can believe in what you are converting to.

if it helps you from a spiritual point:

as a child it was always explained to me that the Jews were God's chosen people and they had a special deal with God that gets them into heaven.  Jesus was for the rest of us unwashed heathens who had the misfortune to not be born Jewish and we required salvation that the Jews didn't need.  So by converting to Judaism you no longer require salvation to enter Heaven, it's part of the new package deal you're getting ;)

Answer 6

No. If you believe in Jesus, and believe that your salvation can only come through Jesus, then you cannot convert to Judaism. And converting in any event would make you an apostate to Christianity, which would mean that you would be damned, not saved, according to Christian belief.

No Rabbi would convert you if you still believe in Jesus, since that is incompatible with Judaism. And also according to Jewish tenets, a person can only covert if they are sincere. You are not a sincere convert. And your boyfriend is very wrong to try to convince you to convert--Judaism does not proselytize and frowns upon it. By wanting a non-believer to convert, your boyfriend is explicitly going against Jewish tenets.

There's yet another issue, here. Your boyfriend should accept you the way you are, and not pressure you to change to be a different way. If marrying a non-Jew is against his belief, then he should break up with you. If converting away from Christianity is against your belief, then you need to break up with him. Your life-partner needs to accept you the way you are, and if one of you converts FOR THE OTHER and not because of a sincere belief, it WILL cause problems down the line, at each and every holiday, and especially when you have kids. You've got to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you, and your boyfriend does, too.

Answer 7

I'll presume by "salvation" you mean belief in Jesus.

Think of it like this, what are the first 6 letters of CHRISTianity?  That pretty much define what the religion in.  You can't be Jewish, and believe in Jesus.  By definition, belief in Jesus is CHRISTianity.

So no, your conversion would not be considered legitimate - a conversion to Judaism is only considered a true conversion if the convert-to-be is sincere.  By maintaining a belief in Jesus, you are not sincere about Judaism.  Additionally, your children would not be considered Jewish.  This may easily give them many problems in the future for when they want to get married.  

So before pretending to convert, first think of how this will effect your children, and their children, and so on.

Also, since Judaism doesn't have the concept of eternal damnation or 'salvation' from it like Christianity does, you can't be a convert to Judaism and maintain those beliefs.