Question for my JW friends....?

Question

doconwheelzz - very intersting that you call Jesus "another god".

So then this scripture applies, right?

Exodus 23:13

...and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

You better not say "Jesus" at the end of your prayers anymore.

You better not say "Jesus is Lord" either.

You cannot separate that which is ONE.

Answer 1

Jesus recieved worship of angles in Heb 1:6. Same greek word for worship as is seen in Matt 4:10.(look it up). If Jesus was not God, he could not have recieved such worship without breaking Ex 20:3-5. Also see IS.9:6; Mic.5:2, and compare this with Joh 1:1 in a TRUE Bible.  

Answer 2

Matt. 4:8-10 says..."Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

So Jesus himself said we are only to "Worship" Jehovah God himself and no one else.

and Exo. 20:3 says "3 You must not have any other gods against my face." as well as Exo. 20:5 "...because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion..."

Hope this helps you out. Have a great day!

Answer 3

No for them it is not Jesus.  I am most sure that it is Michael the Archangel that is Chief next to God in reality God and Jesus is One and the same.

Answer 4

Worship, Greek word of which is pro·sky·ne′o. Unger’s Bible Dictionary says that this word literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage.’ An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word “denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man . . . or to God.” In Bible times pro·sky·ne′o often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.

Even the king mentioned in Jesus' parable accepted the worship of his servant (Matthew 18:26)

In the OT:

Jacob bowed down seven times upon meeting his brother, Esau. (Genesis 33:3) Joseph’s brothers prostrated themselves, or did obeisance, before him in honor of his position at the Egyptian court. (Genesis 42:6)

To my brothers:

They would not accept the various meanings of worship,  because for them it proves trinity, same with other verses that "allegedly" supporting trinity.  They would rather take a word or title by word itself rather than the meaning of it in its context/usage in other parts of the Bible.  Anna's question is a good example of which.  =)

Answer 5

We're having trouble with those pesky lights again.

Answer 6

the wacthtower is a shame, they contradict themselves ALOT. jesus christ forgave sin. only GOD canforgive sin so what does that make jesus christ. also they might say this is old light don't bother. well in 30-40 years from now the teachings of the w.t. will be old light.

Answer 7

What representatives of Jehovah did his ancient people worship that Jehovah viewed as acceptable? After Aaron honored the people's request to make for them a golden calf, the people said: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” (Ex. 32:4) Was that calf an acceptable representative of Jehovah that deserved worship? No!

So, what representatives of Jehovah were God's FAITHFUL people worshiping in the OT? No one!

"Linedancer... do you not believe that the Angel of the LORD was indeed the preincarnate Jesus?"

Not necessarily. However, what is known is that the angel was a direct representative of God. Manoah knew that angel was NOT Jehovah. At Judg. 13:22, it says: "And Jehovah’s angel did not repeat appearing to Ma·no′ah and his wife anymore. Then it was that Ma·no′ah knew that he had been Jehovah’s angel." Still, Manoah viewed the angel's message as if it came straight from Jehovah. That's why he said in the next verse: "“We shall positively die, because it is God that we have seen.” That explains why Thomas could say to Jesus: My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)

Jehovah is the only one to be worshiped. Even Jesus worshiped Jehovah. At John 20:17, he told Mary: "I am ascending to MY GOD and your God." That shows that Jesus and Mary worshiped the SAME God.

BTW, since you believe in the trinity, where does the Bible say Christians should worship and pray to the holy spirit? Is it not an equal person in the trinitarian godhead?

So far, have you noticed that the people who agree with you offer no Scriptural backings for their comments?

General Patten says: "Jesus recieved worship of angels in Heb 1:6. Same greek word for worship as is seen in Matt 4:10.(look it up). If Jesus was not God, he could not have recieved such worship without breaking Ex 20:3-5." Has the General forgotten that it was God himself who told the angels to worship Jesus? Heb. 1:6 says: "And when he brought his firstborn Son into the world, God said, “Let all of God’s angels worship him.” Ex. 20:3-5 still applies to mankind. God's command to worship Jesus was given to the angels, NOT to humans. We still obey Jesus' command at John 4:23: "But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father [NOT the Son] in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way."

Anna, you say Jesus accepted worship? Does that sound reasonable in the light of Jesus' expressed command to his followers to worship only the Father in "spirit and truth"? Have a look at how three Bible translations correctly renderred the Greek word "proskeneo" at Matt. 28:17:

"And when they saw him, they did homage to him: but some doubted." (Darby Translation)

"When they saw him, they bowed down in front of him. But some people were not sure."  "(Worldwide English (New Testament))

"and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver." (Young's Literal Translation)

So, bowing before Jesus was a sign of respect, NOT worship.

Going back to General Patten, he said: "If Jesus was not God, he could not have recieved such worship without breaking Ex 20:3-5." Without realizing it, he points to the inaccuracy of "proskeneo" being renderred "worship" in connection with Jesus. For instance, after Jesus miraculously quieted a windstorm, some Bibles report that Jesus' disciples worshiped him. But did that mean they felt he was God? No, for Matt. 14:33 reads: "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Jesus' disciples viewed Jesus as God's Son, NOT as God. So, in this verse, translating proskeneo as "worshipped" is not consistent with Ex. 20:3-5 or with Jesus' words at Luke 4:8, where he said: "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him ALONE you must render sacred service."

Answer 8

The word "worship in the bible has been mis-translated in the English and gave many, including you to think Jesus was worshiped. I am not a Jehovah Witness but a lover of the true word of God. This is kinda of long but it is correct. Notice the number 3000 is the correct Hebrew -English translation of worship, all the rest mean to give homage or reverence.

Meaning Of Worship-Strongs Concordance

4352....

1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence

2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence

3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication

a) USED OF HOMAGE shown to men and beings of superior rank

1) to the Jewish high priests

2) to God

3) to Christ

4) to heavenly beings

5) to demons

3000

1) to serve for hire

2) to serve, minister to, either to the gods or men and used alike of slaves and freemen

a) in the NT, to render religious service or homage, TO WORSHIP

b) to perform sacred services, to offer gifts, TO WORSHIP GOD in the observance of the rites instituted for his worship

4576

1) to revere, to worship

2151

1) to act piously or reverently

a) towards God, one's country, magistrates, relations, and all to whom dutiful regard or reverence is due

2323

1) to serve, do service

2) to heal, cure, restore to health

4573

1) to fear, be afraid

2) to honour religiously, to worship

1479

1) voluntary, arbitrary worship

a) worship which one prescribes and devises for himself, contrary to the contents and nature of faith which ought to be directed to Christ

b) said of the misdirected zeal and the practice of ascetics

4574

1) whatever is religiously honoured, an object of worship

a) of temples, altars, statues, idolatrous images

Worship-Worshipped used in the New Testament

MATTHEW 2:2 in the east, and are come to WORSHIP him. ------------------------------- 4352

MATTHEW 2:8 again, that I may come and WORSHIP him also---------------------------.4352

MATTHEW 2:11 and fell down, and WORSHIPPED him: and when they ----------------4352

MATTHEW 4:9 thee, if thou wilt fall down and WORSHIP me. -------------------------------4352

MATTHEW 4:10 is written, Thou shalt WORSHIP the Lord thy God, ----------------------4352

MATTHEW 8:2 came a leper and WORSHIPPED him, saying, Lord, if -------------------4352

MATTHEW 9:18 a certain ruler, and WORSHIPPED him, saying, My daughter -------4352

MATTHEW 14:33 the ship came and WORSHIPPED him, saying, ------------------------4352

MATTHEW 15:9 in vain they do WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines ------------------ 4576

MATTHEW 15:25 Then came she and WORSHIPPED him, saying, Lord, help -------4352

MATTHEW 18:26 therefore fell down, and WORSHIPPED him, saying, Lord, ---------4352

MATTHEW 28:9 and held him by the feet, and WORSHIPPED him. ---------------------4352

MATTHEW 28:17 they saw him, they WORSHIPPED him: but some doubted. ------4352

MARK 5:6 saw Jesus afar off, he ran and WORSHIPPED him, -----------------------------4352

MARK 7:7 in vain do they WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines ---------------------------4576

MARK 15:19 spit upon him, and bowing their knees WORSHIPPED him.---------------4352

LUKE 4:7 If thou therefore wilt WORSHIP me, all shall be ------------------------------------4352

LUKE 4:8 is written, Thou shalt WORSHIP the Lord thy God, -------------------------------4352

LUKE 14:10 then shalt thou have WORSHIP in the presence of ----------------------------1391

LUKE 24:52 And they WORSHIPPED him, and returned to Jerusalem with -----------4352

JOHN 4:20 Our fathers WORSHIPPED in this mountain; and ye say, -------------------4352

JOHN 4:20 Jerusalem is the place where men ought to WORSHIP.-----------------------4352

JOHN 4:21 this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, WORSHIP the Father.-----------------4352

JOHN 4:22 Ye WORSHIP ye know not what: we know what ---------------------------------4352

JOHN 4:22 we know what we WORSHIP: for salvation is of ----------------------------------4352

JOHN 4:23 the true worshippers shall WORSHIP the Father in spirit ---------------------4352

JOHN 4:23 truth: for the Father seeketh such to WORSHIP him. --------------------------4352

JOHN 4:24 Spirit: and they that WORSHIP him must WORSHIP him -------------------4352

JOHN 4:24 that WORSHIP him must WORSHIP him in spirit and ------------------------4352

JOHN 9:38 he said, Lord, I believe. And he WORSHIPPED him.-------------------------- 4352

JOHN 12:20 them that came up to WORSHIP at the feast: ----------------------------------4352

ACTS 7:42 gave them up to WORSHIP the host of heaven;---------------------------------... *

ACTS 7:43 which ye made to WORSHIP them: and I will -------------------------------------435...

ACTS 8:27 treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for

Answer 9

Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I cannot think of when it was acceptable for people in the OT to worship "representatives" of Jehovah.

Perhaps some clarification on that point.

The word worship, in 1945 and in 2008, is understood to have relativeness. That is, there are definitions or degrees of "worship" as a definition of the English word that do not fall into the same category as worship that is offered to the Supreme God, Jehovah.

We even have dignitaries, court officials, and other political figures who have assumed titles and expect to be honored by being referred to as "Your Worship".

The worship, reverence, honor, dignity, and respect given to the Christ is great among Jehovah's Witnesses. BUT, we hold Jehovah God even above that.

A study of the Greek word rendered "worship" in the Greek Scriptures shows that the same word was used by Jesus himself in a parable having to do with an earthly official. Did Jesus teach us to worship our officials by means of this parable? Was he misusing the Greek language? Was he deliberately misleading those listening to him?

No. He knew that they understood the usage as "relative". And we should do the same today. Our intelligence is no less, and the scriptures are no more difficult to understand.

We even use the word in statements such as, "I worship the ground he walks on". We do not mean to worship in the religious sense of reverence to the Almighty. We do not offer an explanation with our statement.  We know that everyone will understand what we mean.

So without the OT example, I cannot answer the first part. And if you are asking if Jehovah's Witnesses have changed their thinking from 1945 to 2008, the answer is no. We understood "relative worship" then, and we understand it today.

EDIT:

I cannot speak for the "dots". But if you look at pg 49, there are several sentences stressing the importance of giving Jehovah his proper due, particularly starting after the reference of Matthew 28:19,20 and ending before the fine print.

For centuries, "Christian" churches gave all glory and worship to Jesus, with a mention of God as if he were the same. So, Jehovah's Witnesses have had to emphasize, reemphasize and emphasize again the importance of Jehovah and the relative importance of Jesus Christ. This passage in the Yearbook is bringing to the fore for those who have questions about why we do emphasize Jehovah. The reverence toward Christ is understood on their part. But how we feel about Jehovah is what is under discussion on the explanation of the Charter.

Page 49 clearly shows that we highly esteem Christ, because it refers to Jehovah's Witnesses as "Jehovah's Christian Witnesses".

The fact that those dots are there did not keep me, nor other Witnesses from knowing what we do about relative worship. It is in many of our publications. We do not hide anything or try to cloud the issue.

EDIT:

Anna, Why would Jesus accept "worship" and Peter not? Perhaps Peter did not quite put himself in the same category as Jesus.  Jesus was owed all the reverence, honor and respect that individuals gave to him. He was (is) the Son of God. But Peter rightfully exclaimed he was "a man".  None of us as humans should expect to receive the adulation that was rightfully offered to Jesus. None of us are on that level. And Peter knew that and was willing to acknowledge that.

So the fact that Peter did not, and Jesus did, does not prove that Jesus was accepting "worship" that only goes to God. He was well aware of his position as the future king of God's kingdom. Remember when he came into Jerusalem riding on a donkey. Did he refuse their attention! No. But those individuals knew what position they were honoring in respect to Jesus.

Answer 10

Jesus is the Lord of me and the God of me!

I kneel before my Saviour.

Call it worship, call it obeisance....

but it's Biblical, that's for sure!