REAR NAKED CHOKE - How to get pass the chin-tuck defense??

Question

I'm getting pretty good at getting the back when rolling, however, when I go to apply the RNC, I can't passed my opponent's chin-tuck defense.

I get the hooks in, I can clear their hands but most of the time, I let the choke go because of the chin-tuck.

Any suggestions??

Answer 1

I agree with Judomofo response of "Digging".  Totally dickish, but a 100% guarentee of working.

Another method used, if you are in position and able to do it...is put your elbow or hand or whatever and push the face down into the mat.  It is the body's natural instinct and reaction to "pop up" per se.  It happens quickly and you must 'feel" for it....

Good Luck.

Respectfully,

Judobigdog

Answer 2

switch arm.

ie. If you have your left arm on the choke, tighten the choke to the right so his head turned to the right a bit, twist your left arm up a bit then Insert your right hand between his right chin and the point of your arm that contact with his chin.

If he still manage to stay tucked, repeat it in reverse.

Answer 3

i have the same problem against some people so i know where your coming from

the first thing, is push your fist into there jaw and try to work that straight down under there chin, theres a nerve there that causes a lot of pain, with it being a distraction there mind switches gears and you can get your hand under the neck

the next is the one i usually use, act like your going for it, you get there hands outa the way, bring your arm across there face, but pull it tight to there body and lift it backward, this will cause a gap between there chin and there chest allowing you to slip your free hand in

if all else fails, apply a body triangle, get off to a slight angle, grab the side of there head right above the ear and push out with your hips and pull back with your hands

its a neck crank by bending there head off so the side, my sensei showed a couple of us it one day just fooling around as an easy transition if you couldnt lock in the choke

Answer 4

Smashing elbow to the head to get good blood flow down on the

neck and chest. It will be easy then to slip your arm under his neck and choke him out.

Answer 5

Lots of answers for this actually. I will go with a few.

The easy answer is to just change it to a jaw or neck crank, but for this example, let's say you really want the choke.

1. I use this frequently, it is an old wrestling trick, essentially like "swimming" as a defensive lineman. It is totally legal in grappling competetions as well.  Let's say for this example, I want my right arm under his chin. With my left arm, I place my forearm, or the crook of my elbow across his forehead. Then lean back and pull, pulling his head back and chin up and shoot my right arm in hard. Most of the time the guy is not going to have a strong enough neck to resist the muscles of your arm, shoulders, and back working together to pop his head up. It will slip quickly or he will readjust, but you will have a quick window of opportunity to shoot your arm in there and complete the choke. Again this is one quick motion, you don't want to take 3 or 4 seconds with your arm across his forehead, you kind of just want to grip and rip so to say.

Remember you don't necessarily have to the crook of your elbow underneath the chin, you can go against the trachea with your forearm, ala hadaka jime: http://www.judoinfo.com/hadaka.jpg

However if you shoot your arm across right (think like you are throwing a hook) you will fit in there perfectly.

This is surprisingly simple, and very effective.

2. Another way is what is called "digging", if you flex the tip of your index finger down, and drive your knuckle underneath your opponents jaw, starting at the point just below the ear, and grinding your way down, you can dig your arm underneath his chin. A lot of times they will pop up their chin when you hit that pressure point. If you are ever in a grappling tournament, you will more than likely feel this technique being utilized.

Keep in mind, you want to ensure you are controlling one of his arms with your other arm, this is painful to do and not something I would do just rolling around with guys in the dojo, it tends to p**s people off.

If you have a good body triangle and control of the guy, you can start at the base of the skull and work both hands in this way. When your knuckles get to that pressure point, roll your fists in, and use the knuckles of your fist to cut the carotid artery on both sides. Push in hard, and you have a good choke, they will flail and either tap, or leave the chin open. This is probably one of the more painful chokes out there honestly. You go doing this to your buddies and don't be suprised if they don't honor a tap or two in retribution or repay you the same favor.

I had an old school Judo coach who used this technique exclusively anytime someone was just turtling up and tucking their chin instead of trying to escape. This is especially effective after you have broken a guy down, you are in rear mount and he is laying on his stomach. I promise you a reaction to this choke in that circumstance. But again, it is a real dickish sort of thing to do. Honestly I probably should even told you about that lol, I try not to teach it to too many people for fear they will be trying that out on me...

It hurts... more than any other choke, much more so. It's a fun one at parties, when you want to demonstrate "the gentle art" and I tell them I will only apply a small amount of pressure so they get the jist...

3  You can Gable grip your hand, and wedge your forearm on their chin. Start pulling in while moving your arm in a twisting motion, and can grind your way underneath the chin with goold ol fashioned elbow grease. I will do this sometimes in a sawing type of motion, wanting my forearm to rake across their chin. I did a lot of bone conditioning when I was younger, so it usually causes a good bit of uncomfortability.

Personally, I will neck or jaw crank a guy sometimes just to open up the chin. But about 85% of the time number 1 above works for me. It has to be one quick fluid motion, as you get just a half a second or so where you will open up his chin.

Hope that helps, there are quite a few other ways, but those are just some quick tricks off the top of my head.

Good luck, and keep practicing. Remember that best time to sink in RNC is during transitions, you want the arm across the neck right as you are setting your hooks, or as your opponent is rolling out of mount. The best time to land it is in transition, not when you are sitting in rear mount, hooks in, and he is just defending. It is a lot more difficult that way, kind of hard to sneak it in when the guy knows it is coming at the point lol.

Keep on rolling man, message me if I can be of any help.

Answer 6

I agree with judos first suggestion, though I usually go right under their nose instead of across the forehead, reason being I have found this works better against wrestlers(I'm not sure why), who tend to have very strong necks.  

I can't comment on his other suggestions as I can't remember ever seeing them, I'd love to see a video of them though to see if I'm simply imagining them wrong.

something I like doing(I can't remember the name of it some else feel free to tell me if you know what its called) is if they are wearing a gi, and I cant get under their chin, I grab their lapel with the arm which I was trying to get across their neck, take some pressure off their chin and I can usually slip their lapel under their chin across their neck, then pull the lapel tight, and come over their arm and behind their head with the other hand(exactly like a half nelson if you know what that is), then shift you body out to the side of the arm which is behind their head, push their head forward and pull the lapel tight against their neck, if thats not working its not usually hard to switch off to an armbar on that side