Radio, or go-to-the-glove?

Question

Is it just me, or do the vast majority of new Conductors and Brakemen refuse to learn hand signals for communicating with the Engineer. I know that with reduced crew size, we have to use radio communication over long distances. But I much rather "go to the glove" for switching and other ground work. I try teaching the various signals to the newbies, and they listen to me. But then they start using the radio again, even while standing on the footboard - in my plain sight - right there on the engine!!!! I yell out, 'WTF did we just talk about?!?!?' I don't know. Maybe they cling to the radio because all the other newbies are also clinging to the radio. Is this the new railroad culture?

I try to explain that the radio channel gets too conjested with other crews and can be a hazard. Also, keeping off the radio prevents dispatchers and train masters from knowing exactly where you are and what you're doing.

What do you guys think? Am I the only one left who insists on this?

Answer 1

Being a pretty new conductor (2 years) I have to say that I prefer to give hand signals.  The less I have to talk on the radio the better I like it, keeps the traffic down for those who actually need it when line of site is not an option.

Answer 2

I'm one of the new guys, but I like to use hand signals, mostly because I don't want any managers or yardmasters knowing every move we make, and when we make them.  I do let the right people know if I will be fouling the lead or any time it is appropriate.  I have actually gotten compliments from oldheads about my hand signals, and have had a few of the old yard guys teach me some that they didn't teach us in class.  Some of the engineers I worked with didn't even know some of the signals I used.  Good topic.

Answer 3

Doesn't your railroad have a rule that says "If you can use hand signs, you must"?

If it does, easy -- don't move the train except in response to hand sign.  "C'mon back."   "C'mon back."  "C'mon back."  Hey, why won't you move?  "Not sure it's you.  Could be some other crew.  That rule was written in blood, you know.  Want em to use your blood?"

Option 2, when you're ready for a nice long move, leave em behind!  "But I heard you on the radio."  "Wasn't me." "Well sounded like you." "Didn't you look?" "Why would I, Mr. Radio?"

Answer 4

Yeah

I know exactly what you mean, I will have a new guy standing on the front step of an engine using his radio to make a joint.

We have guys that come to work and dont even carry a lantern any more.

It is really  joy to work with a good switch crew that uses only hand signals, they can tell you more with their hands than with a radio and there is no question what they want.

edit to coolhand, you're exactly right, the less said on the radio the better, I never heard of anyone getting written up for not saying "over" using hand signs.

ha, you reminded me of a comical thing, back in the day befroe radios, we had to do a good bit of work each night on the local and with the town lights and road going by lanterns were almost impossible to see so the conductor would position himself to pass signals with a fusee.

A trainmaster (new) walked up to him one night and said "you know John, those fusees cost the RR 35 cents each"

Old Punkinhead didnt say a word as he dropped the stub of one and skrrritched another one to life and said "and d**n well worth it!!"

Answer 5

That's a radio? I thought it was a new appendage they were all born with! I got on one once for that.I told him hey your standing 70 feet away use hand signals.Well he got the pin and then he pointed towards the front of the engine.I turned and looked.Nothing there.He points again.Still nothing there!He gets on the radio and asks  what's the matter with me.I crook a finger at him..c'mere.When i ask him what he's pointing at he tells me i want you to take it ahead.I tell him well give me an ahead sign.He says WTF do you think i was doing!I told him i thought you were pointing at a good looking woman walking by.We went back to the radio after that.Since then i have given up hope.When i tell them we used to do 50 car set outs using hand signals they look dumbfounded.

Answer 6

Aaaaaaaaaaaaamen !

I'd pay to watch a "modern" crew work half a day without a radio...  but that'd take three days...

I've never tried to figure out how many hand signals have been lost to history but I'm sure it is a bunch.  How about, "Kick 1 down the house and line ahead to the main," or even a simple "cut the crossing" done with hand signals?  It ain't gonna happen ever again...

Even worse is all the maintenance of way chatter while you're tryin' to switch.

But, there is a light at the end of the tunnel that isn't an on-coming train.  You'll never have to spend a day with your head hangin' out the window because the crew don't like ya...  and their radios happen to "fail" on the most miserable day of the year.