Hard mouth?

Question

Everyone keeps telling me to have soft hands with this hard mouthed horse. I try to but he won't turn or whoa without me pulling back hard. I keep my hands low and try just a little reign at first then a little more then my arm is all the way out to my side to turn or my hands are into my belly button to whoa. I've ruled out a harsher bit because I've been told it will only mask the real problem, a hard mouth. So do I go back to a snaffle training bit? I don't want a hackamore he is just to head strong and has no whoa. HELP!

Answer 1

Hello,

Here is my suggestion:

Are you using body cues first?  You need to sit deep into the saddle first, wiggle the reins second, and then apply pressure to the reins...

You can "check" him or "bump" the bit, by three or four quick tugs, NOT hard just to remind him the bit is in there and to listen.

UNFORTUNATELY, if this is an older horse, or a horse that has only been ridden with heavy hands his mouth may be scared up and the bit ineffective.

You are much better off going back to a snaffle and trying to retrain the horse.  

BUT, there is NOTHING wrong with ridding in hackamore, it may turn out to be WAY more effective, since it doesn't usually have a bit, depending on the type you of hack you have.  

I totally agree with  you that using a stronger bit, won't help the problem at all.  It could actually make things worse.

It will take some time, but just be patient and slow, he may actually be glad to have someone helping to relieve his pressure in his mouth.

I think it is great that you are willing to help him with his problem.

Answer 2

The horse needs some training and you should work on your ability to communicate in a way he understands.  There is no such thing as a "hard mouth", just a lack of training or riding ability.  You should never "pull back hard" on both of your reins.  That is not the way to stop your horse.  Learn to use your body.  I use my reins for reinforcement if my horse doesn't react to my ask.  My horses are primarily ridden by using my seat and body language.  If you can't stop your horse with your seat, you have no communication and your riding will always be poor and your horse unhappy in his work.  A harsher or bigger bit is also never the answer.  Get some help.  Being able to communicate with your horse in a way that he understands is the key to the best ride in the world.

Answer 3

A hard mouth on a horse is a training problem not an actual physical problem, so yes going to a harsher bit will most likely compound the problem. A hardmouthed (or iron jawed, tough mouthed ect.) is an aquired habit to ignore pressure or either they never learned to be soft/ sensitive in the first place. If you've ever started a 2 yo to the bit you'll notice they seem very insensitive (ie tough mouthed) but thats simply not possible since a bit has never been there before! :-) They've simply not learned to give to pressure yet.

Take him all the way back to the ground with the llightest bit available to you...prefferably a think eggbutt snaffle. If he's a dry mouthed horse get a copper mouthpiece as dry mouths tend to make them less sensitive since the bit is sticking to their lips already.

Stand at his shoulder and put one hand on one rein the other on his shoulder. Start lightly tugging with one finger on the rein. When he gives the slightest amount istantly release all pressure, litterally drop the rein. Praise him and go to the other side and do it again. The key is to give full immediate release at the least amount of give even if it is just a slight tip of the nose for a second. Some horse that don't know how to give will actually try turning instead of giving keep with him and keep the light pressure constant. Before long he'll catch on and get softer and more sensitive.

As he gets better you can ask for more bend before releasing the pressure but always be sure to use light pressure, no pulling or snatching. When he gets soft to the point that you can fully flex his head to his shoulder by just hooking one finger lightly around the rein and shifting your hand, and does it consistantly, then move on to the saddle and start the process over from there. Same rules apply, start out asking for a little and always use light pressure.

Ask don't demand. It may take some time but with consistant work and no shortcuts he'll improve drasticly and before long he'll be giving when you start removing the slack from the rein  before it actually puts any pressure on his mouth.

Answer 4

Just out of curiosity what kind of horse is it?

He may be ahrd mouthed due to his trainers using heavy hands. This is not as complicated as other people are making it. Just go back to ground work for a week. Take him into the arena wiht his halter and lead and a pocket full of treats. You need to teach him th whoa command. start by walking with him then sya Whoa and then stop. If he doesnt' stop bump him by giving a slight jerk on the lead and say whoa again. when he stops give him LOTS of praise and a treat. Make it a big deal and do it again. if you keep doing it several days a week he will learn the whoa command. I would put him in a very soft snaffle and when you do get back on him just walk leach him to move off of leg pressure rather than your hands. While he is alking in a straight line push your right leg on him as soon as he takes one step aways from it praise him alot. Eventually you can take this prosses up to to trot and so on.

Answer 5

well part of it is that you dont seem like you are using leg aids. start by holding heels, calfs, and thighs on the horse. when you want to stop, take off your heels, and calfs, and relax you thighs and say whoa. then for the hard mouth, try suppling exercises. try a serpintine exercise bend body around leg using littlest rein as it takes. alternate hand and leg, then switch to counter bending figure eights. do both of these exercises for 30 min before you trot and canter around the ring, and your horse will be better for you and he will accept the bit and his mouth will soften.

Answer 6

try a different bit.  are you using a one piece bit?  that could be contributing.  try a split bit (can't remember the official name of it.)  some even come with a roller.  ask the equipment store what the roller is for and how it could or could not help you.  since the bit is split, when you pull on it from one side or another, it applies different pressure, and may even affect different areas of the mouth.  

also, before you buy a new bit, check the chain.  if the chain on your bridle is too tight or too loose, no wonder you're not getting any control.  when your bridle is on your horses head.  see how many fingers you can slide between your horse's chin and the chain.  you should slide 3 fingers.  if you can only slide one or two, loosten it.  if you can slide 4 or more, tighten it.     this can really save you and no one is thinking about telling you to check this.

Also, I've even seen people without a chain.  make sure you have a chain!!! that's the only way to stop!!!  I've seen at a kids rodeo, a kid did not have a chain and of course his horse was all over the place almost killing everyone cause he was basically running wild.

Answer 7

The bit is everything...I'd use a full cheek snaffle.  It assists turns by pushing on the outside of his muzzle while you pull in the other direction, so he is encouraged to turn his head.

The whoa is so crucial, it should always come first. When you go to stop him, you can use as strong of a pull (not yank, smooth pull) as it takes to get a response, but the key is to release immediately after the pull. I trot down the rail, and when I want the stop, I sit deep in the saddle, give a quick leg squeeze to alert him for a change, but immediately relaxing my legs again, and tighten both reins straight backward,saying whoa.

If no stop happens, I immediately go to one rein, and give it a strong pull immediately followed by a release (still no stop?), then I do the same on the other rein (still no stop?), and next I do a tight turn to the inside (away from the rail).  I don't hold my arm out to the side, I pull backward toward my inside leg while cueing hard with my outside (rail) leg.  I usually would end up with my hand coming back over my thigh toward the hindquarter to complete this turn...the idea is to prevent the horse from walking forward, and achieve more of a pivot off of the hind end.  I keep the horse in that turn forever if that's what it takes to get him to stop.  Once he does, I release the rein and pet him.

You can use extremely strong pulls without damaging the mouth, as long as the pull is released immediately afterward.  Again, I am assuming that the horse is in a full cheek snaffle.

I would do this every time I rode, but not be overly repetitive to where the horse wants to flip out.  Some relaxed walking in between is a good idea.  Even then, do the same thing if you don't get the stop.  Always cue for the stop before you use your reins.  This is how the horse will eventually stop easily without much bit pressure needed.  Good luck!

EDIT: I just read through the other answers.  I completely disagree on some level with every one of them, which is rarely the case.

Answer 8

I've been told in the past to use copper bits which helps the horse's mouth to relax. I rode a horse for a while that had a really hard mouth. After riding him about 3-5 times a few and doing a lot of ground work and having my trainer ride him 2-3 times, he became gradually better and I felt a big difference in him. I think just changing your equipment, modifying your schedule, and have a trainer work with him time to time will help you and eventually help you with the soft hands theory.

Answer 9

This horse needs to be started completely over  in his training.  He's learned to ignore the rider's hands and cues.

The last horse I had like that caused me to use a bit much more severe than I would have liked.  It worked and I gradually retrained him to listen to me and not fight my cues.  slowly I was able to return to a snaffle, but it took six months.

Good luck.

Answer 10

You labor under misconceptions.

He needs a correction bit.  It will not mask the problem.  He needs to learn to stop before the bite from the bit.  Currently he does not respect the bit enough to try and avoid its use.  If he knows he is supposed to stop but doesn't then he is not even trying to avoid the bits use.  

I have had several horses over the years (bought already trained) that had hard mouths when I first got them.  Generally the first thing I do to such a horse is to put a correction bit in their mouth for a few rides.  Once they learn that they do not wand me to use the bit (I am very careful not to injure their mouth) then I can go back to a less severe bit.

Body cues and leg cues are fine but any horse needs to be able to stop with the reins as well.  It is silly to say that the lack of using leg and seat cues are even part of the problem.  They are used as added tools yes and well they should be.  They are for fine tuning.  The failure to stop with the reins is NOT to be excused just because the rider is not using them.

One more thing.  I have seen more sores on horse's mouths from snaffles than all the other bits combined.  Why?  Because many horses choose to fight a snaffle, especially once you get out of the arena.  The result is the rider often feels forced to control the horse by sawing with the reins.  In fact I have seen horses that would not slow without the sawing.  I take these horses and put a bit they can feel in.  Move your hands slowly but firmly.  Pretty soon the horse will figure out that if they simply move when the reins first cue them, bit pressure is never applied.  Every horse I have on this place can be guided by hooking a finger loosely in the reins.  That is the most pressure I ever apply.

Notice that all my advice is for horses ridden outside the arena.  In the arena it is a different riding world, with different rules.  For example there is little or no danger of a run-away horse.  There is no chance that a panicked horse will run out into traffic or over a ledge.