Is 'Bullshido' trustworthy?

Question

Are they qualified to pass judgement on the martial arts? And why?

Answer 1

Bullshido isn't a person.

It is a group of people (in fact the largest read Martial Arts site on the net). They don't pass judgement on Martial Arts.

They don't pass ANY judgement, they merely present facts, and let people come to their own conclusion. Or they come to the conclusion if the claims someone has made are patently false.

For example if someone says they are qualified to teach Martial Arts because "I train the LAPD swat team in hand to hand" and a member of the LAPD SWAT team happens to come on, show his law enforcement certificate, and say that "This person in no way teaches LAPD SWAT hand to hand nor have we heard of him" that would make that person's statement more than likely false, as real members of the LA Swat say that he does not teach them.

That is not passing judgement that is simply verifying or disputing someone's credentials. Which is what actual Bullshido investigations do.

Also look at their actual reviews... they are reviewing certain schools, the people reviewing claim their relevance in regards to the review, the same as people reviewing other people.

For example if someone says they are a 10th degree blackbelt in Judo, and a 2nd degree blackbelt in Judo comes and checks him out and notices sloppy technique, and a lack of knowledge of even black belt Judo, or even brown belt, then I would say the person with a certifiable Nidan in Judo (proven through registration with USJI, or USJA or other Organization) would be qualified to pass judgement on another instructor as if he is black belt material to his or her own standards.

I think you are painting a broad generalization that is not based on actual facts or individual investigations that have been conducted but what YOU perceive to be an attitude of some of the more vocal and immature members of the site, and not the site or actual investigations themselves.

Most everything is attempted to be based as non biased, of course some members are going to be biased because of their background.

Again, all Bullshido wants (as a collective) is that for someone to simply prove what they say. If you say you are 22-0 in professional fighting show it. Otherwise you are decieving people (your students). If you say you are a black belt in BJJ, then prove it. Otherwise someone is literally outright defrauding those who he is teaching.

I would highly suggest that instead of thinking that they are passing judgement you actually look at any of their "investigations" and see how the people doing it actually conducted themselves, and you will find very little judgement as far as a Martial Art as a whole.

But yes, if someone with 12 years of Law Enforcement experience says that what someone who is claiming to teach "Law Enforcement Tactics" is incorrect, I will tend to believe the person with 12 verifiable years of experience and believe they are qualified to pass judgement of effective law enforcement techniques.

The same as I consider myself somewhat qualified to pass judgement on if someone is black belt level or close enough in Judo, as I am a Nidan (soon to be Sandan). Does my 17 years of Judo experience qualify me to pass judgement on the crispness or application of a Judo technique? I think so.

So saying does Bullshido as it is some ominous group have the right to pass judgement on a Martial Art is wrong, because collectively it only investigates the claim of certain Martial Artists, not the art themselves.

As far as any style reviews they are typically written by people with vast experience in that particular art.

I would love to continue discussing this with you actually. Provide some sort of proof of judgement passing by the collective of Bullshido and not just a rogue mouthy ignorant member.

Check out this page:

http://www.bullshido.com/

Look through the actual investigations done there and see what I mean. All they do is try to verify the outrageous claims they certian Martial Artists make.

Check out here:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdis...

See how many people get admonished, or posts removed for making baseless judgements against a certain instructor. See how many people start and investigation, find out this person is indeed what he says he is, and then the issue is closed.

Bullshido isn't about making judgements, it is about verify facts, or disputing outrageous claims.

No one is passing judgement, and when investigating they use qualified people to critique the techniques and level of skill someone has.

For example in the the top post of that page, the Chris Valkenberg, the had two higher level BJJ players go in and check out his class before passing any judgement. Those qualified to make an accurate assesment of the level of training or experience that this person has.

So instead of being one of those people who just generalizes bullshido based on a vocal few bad apples, how bout you look at what it is really about.

The same as I try not to judge other whole groups of people being judgemental about MMA (despite having never participated in it, or having the most basic understanding of it) as being the rule as far as traditionalist go.

Are you qualified to pass judgement on any particular Martial Art? Or on the effectiveness of something?

I think you will find MOST people at Bullshido aren't judgemental, but maybe are a little quick to want someone to verify any claim they make with substantial evidence. But not a judgemental way, merely a if you say it, you should be able to prove it. While I think at times they are a little quick to jump to try to call out someone they think might be lying, there are plenty of times that people who get called out ended up being shown as being the real deal and who they say they are, thus making their legitimacy that much more concrete.

Again, compare how few articles are there about frauds, and how many threads there are about people wanting help looking into the credentials of someone in their area.

That is just my opinion, I don't generalize the collective and I think collectively that they have some really qualified guys in each specific area, very decorated Martial Artists, Law Enforcement, Military, Pro Fighters, etc.etc.

Unfortunately yes there are a few on there that the second you mention certain Martial Arts.. they are going to pipe up with what they think. But that is not the collective whole, that is a vocal minority of ignorant people that you will find in every dojo, every internet forum, and in any crowd.

But yes, I think collectively as a whole, they are qualified to verify the credentials of other Martial Artist, because the site as a whole doesn't pass judgement on any particular Martial Art, just individual practitioners who make bogus or exagerrated claims and mislead their students.

Just my opinion.

Answer 2

There are some issues with this website...like the Myth that anyone practicing a Chinese Martial art but wearing a karate black belt is fake. Kung Fu San Soo----they wear Gi and Karate belts but they are not McDojos....Bullshido generalizes too much without the proper research. I lived in China for many years, many Kung Fu teachers wear Black belts and sometimes TKD uniforms especially in Shanghai where many people can afford top quality gear....

Answer 3

I think it has it's good points and bad points. For instance I saw a video that named a MMA fighter vs. Some karate guy. For one thing the karate guy was obviously from TKD, and for another he was not wearing a belt, and there is no proof that he even knew a martial art, which from the stuff he threw I doubt he has ever been in a dojo.

Then you have all of the _______ sucks stuff(insert name of any style other then Muay thai, BJJ, or MMA here) that is also rament on here. I suspect this will be the case anywhere you go, and I suspect there will also be plenty of traditional practitioners slamming the styles listed above.

I think like anything you have too take it with a grain of salt, and realize that many there will have their own agenda's. I havn't looked close enough to really have more of an opinion. Some of it looks good, other stuff not so good. I see plenty stated on there that has no back up behind it, but that's mainly from individual users.

Personely I will form my own opinions more from exerience, then from what anybody says or writes. I beleive that if you claim you can do pressure point knock outs they will make you prove it, but some parts of it look totally unsupervised, and people can say anything they want.

If it works for you great, I just don't think I will be spending  lot of time there, I have my own training to worry about.

Answer 4

Bunch of opinions, some good some not so good.  While they have exposed some of the corruption they have also hurt the reputation of a few good martial artists.

Answer 5

It would be Ironic if it weren't.

Not an answer, just a statement.

Answer 6

Personally, I don't think so.  It's really up to the reader to determine what they believe.

My instructor is one of the most qualified instructors in the US.  He has been on the cover of martial arts magazines (1996) and published a book (2006) available at your local Borders or Barnes & Noble.  He has also taught martial arts to the FBI and CIA.  Even with all those credentials, many aspects of his school would be considered to be "McDojo", such as children black belts and his belief that martial arts is for everyone.  

He also charges alot of money compared to others and makes a decent living.  

I don't subscribe to the belief that martial arts instruction should be a charity.  The guy works 6-7 days a week about 70 hours and it's his only source of income.  I don't personally don't think there is anything wrong with a dojo owner making money or profiting from teaching martial arts.  

I also don't have a problem with children black belts that are at least 8 years old.  I've seen 10 year olds do amazing things and if they know the required curriculum then why hold them back.  That being said, I prefer a "Jr." belts system, where they can't be "official" black belts until they are a certain age, but I'm not too picky about it.

Many people, that are righteous in their own minds, think that their way is the only way, and claim that anything successful is a "McDojo" as a way to try to distinguish their school from the rest and legitimize what they are teaching.

The bottom line is that you must decide what you think it good and bad and what you can live with.  It's easy to make solid, logical sounding arguments on both sides of the fence.  It's really the student/consumer that needs to be satisfied, not the readers of Bullshido or Yahoo Answers.  

James

Answer 7

I joined the blog there to see what it is like. It is no more than a bunch of Martial arts enthusiasts venting their personal opinions. Every thing must be taken with a grain of salt.

My advise to my friends and family is to investigate from as many sources as practical and than make your own judgment. Most often in life if it looks and quacks like a duck than it is probably a duck.

To often we will try to breath truth into something we think we like rather than shine a bright light on it and pick it apart to find the truth. You will find some truth there and a lot of opinion that is unsubstantiated. For the novice, I would not send them there for advice.

If you have some knowledge and experience than I think that site may be helpful.

Answer 8

'Bullshido' is not a single entity. It's a message board comprised of thousands of members all over the world. Many hold black belts in multiple arts, others are professional or amateur fighters, others have law degrees, PhDs, MDs, etc... As consumers of Martial Arts instruction we (I am Bullshido member Kintanon) are qualified to pass judgment on the quality of instruction offered by Martial Arts schools. Just as Consumer Reports is qualified to pass judgment on the quality of a fax machine.

When we find someone engaging in what me suspect is fraud we attempt to investigate it, get both sides, and present the report as accurately as possible. Obviously there is a normal mix of idiots, jerks, geniuses, etc... in the Bullshido population, and sometimes disgruntled ex-students come to Bullshido and try to slander their former schools. We protect against this by having a universal requirement of proof. If you make a statement or a claim you must provide proof of that claim. This applies to EVERYONE. If I claim that tapping your wrist, then your shoulder, then your neck will knock you unconcious then it is up to me to prove it with reliable, verifiable evidence. This frequently takes the form of a demonstration on a non-compliant trusted Bullshido member.

This is a minimal burden of proof requirement for anyone making claims of effectiveness. Anyone is qualified to request and judge such proof.

If you aren't making extraordinary claims then you have nothing to worry about.

Edit for Sifu Frank: Join some of the discussions there, read through the investigations, etc... You'll find there is a lot of good material. I know a lot of "traditional" MA people don't like Bullshido because we demand that they prove their claims, but that's not an unreasonable demand.

Edit for James:

A McDojo describes the marketing practices of a school. A school can be a great school and still be a McDojo, Gracie academies are popular examples. Their marketing is very much in the style of the McDojo, but the school is still great. There is a very distinctive line between a McDojo (A school with aggressive marketing tactics and possibly inflated belt rankings) and Bullshido (The term used to describe someone who is making claims which are outright fraudulent like Ashida Kim or Frank Dux). So yes, your instructor may have a fantastic school which is also a McDojo. Many Bullshido.net members attend such schools. We just believe that it's important to know what you're getting into before you sign a 1-3 year contract.

Edit for JM:

So jump into the discussions and mention that. The whole point of Bullshido.net is that ANYONE can register and provide proof/evidence to support or refute something. And many of the members do live in China, Japan, the UK, Eastern Europe, Canda, the US, South America, even South Africa. Bullshido has world wide representation.

Answer 9

You have the bull part correct.

Any commerical activity does not repersent the arts.

I have studied for many years.

Below is the true path, anything else is just entertainment.