Pound for Pound?

Question

James Toney v. Holyfield was replayed last night, and watching Toney beat the h**l out of Holyfield I started thinking that this was what "pound for pound" meant - a guy blending his skill and athletisism, in whatever proportions, to basically be able to handle the most styles, sizes, etc. possible.

Everyone says Ray Robinson and, though most who say it never really saw that much of him, the fact that he went from 147 to challenge at 175, lends credibility: my top five that I've seen would be - 1. RJJ, 2. Duran, 3-5 Ray Leonard, Whitaker and Toney, I can't decide on order.

I was wondering if you guys had a different criteria/definition.

Answer 1

The TRUE meaning of POUND for POUND means that, regardless of weight class, who is the best overall.  It implys that, if all fighters could be the same weight who would be best.  It also grades how well each fighter performed in his respective weight class.  IOW,  Duran was a better Lightweight than Frazier was a Heavyweight so, Pound for Pound, he rates higher.  

Ali is generally considered the best heavyweight.  However, Robinson was a better welter weight than Ali was a heavyweight.  OF course, to say that would not necessarily  mean that, if Ali is number one at Robinson MUST be number one at welter.  He is number one but Henry Armstrong is generally considered #2 at welter.  However, overall, he usually ranks above Ali on the pound for pound list because he was better at welter than Ali was at heavy.

The best overall fighters usually range between Welter and Lt heavyweight due to the even mixture of speed and power.  

Some dont like to admit that Roy Jones belongs high on the list of Pound for Pound.   They remember that he was KO'd late in his career.  However,  Sugar Ray Leonard, to whom Roy is often compared to, is a well loved fighter.  As long as he's in the picture many will not give Roy his credit.  

People forget what Roy did to himself in dropping 20lbs of SOLID muscle.  YOU CANT DO THAT!!  I'm surprised Roy didn't pick up on that.  He should NEVER have fought the rematch with Tarver because he had nothing to prove in beating Tarver the first time.  Look at Roy's fights before the rise in weight, when he was at his best.  Who can punch with that blend of speed and power from those angles?  NOT MANY.

What Can They Do IN THE RING???  Rocky Marciano would lose to some of the later heavyweights because he's simply too small at 5'10/188lbs.  However, P4P, he would rank quite high.   That means if all heavyweights were closer to each other in weight, but could perform the same, He would probably be the best.  

Marciano's  weakness is his lack of size and boxing ability.  However, men who outweight him with in 15 pounds usually fell after being grinded down.   He would not be able to overcome a guy like Lennox Lewis who would simply be too big at 6'5"/245lbs.  but if Lennox were 225 and Rocky were 205 Rocky would likely win.  

Some would swear that Rocky would win AS IS but let's be realistic.  There is no way, GIVEN THE STYLES, that a man will beat another who stands more than half a foot taller and over 50 pounds heavier.  It would be difficult even if Rocky had better skills and the bigger man did not have Lennox' skills.  It could be done in other contact sports but not within the rules of boxing.  

Robinson is generally regarded as the best because he has the best blend of speed, power, talent and something over 90% of all fighters don't have,  perfect symmetry and balance.  Ali had it, which is one reason he's the best at heavyweight.  Robinson also has something many pure boxers don't have.  He can FIGHT! when he needs to.  CAN those jabs and mix it up.  Not many boxers can do that.  He can DIG DEEP and pull victory from defeat.  

Not many can do that.

Answer 2

ray robinson is mentioned any time this comes up i saw his fights was very good.so was the rock,oscar d,ray leonard,no order of best but i guess i will go with robinson.

Answer 3

Ray Robinson might be considered the best "pound for pound" fighter of all time, but the term was actually coined for Pernell Whitaker.  He's the first fighter to be referred to as "The Best in the World, Pound for Pound".  

During my thirty-some years on this planet, no one did it better than Sweet Pea. . . hitting and not getting hit.  Floyd comes close, Roy even closer, but Whitaker deserves the title.  All time?  Naa. . . I still say Robinson.

Answer 4

pound for pound as far as i'm aware is a measure of skill kinda.

We all know that if a welterweight was put up against a heavyweight he'd probably get his *** pounded.  BUT pound for pound is basically measuring them with their skill and technique, and just pretending they're the same weight class.

so pound for pound the better fighter just means

Yeah that guy weights 10ton more in muscle, but if him and that other guy weren't so vastly appart in weight class, he'd get schooled by the little dudes skill.

Answer 5

the best pound 4 pound champions from 1960 - present on my list are muhummad ali, wilfred benitez, nino benvenuti, ken buchanan, antonio cervantes, jeff chandler, curtis cokes, roberto duran, flash elorde, george foreman, bob foster, joe fraizer, joey giardello, wilfredo gomez, emile griffith, marvin hagler, fighting harada, eder jofre, harold johnson, ismael laguna, ray leonard, sonny liston, nicolino locche, duilio loi, carlos monzon, jose napoles, ruben olivares, carlos ortiz, carlos palomino, willie pastrano, floyd patterson, eddie perkins, sugar ramos, luis rodriguez, vicente saldivar, michael spinks, d**k tiger, jose torres, pernell whitaker, etc. these fighters were linear and universal recognized champions and the best in their respective weight classes...evander holyfield, roy jones jr, bernard hopkins, oscar de la hoya, floyd maymeather, marco antonio barrera, and manny pacquiao definitely belong with these group of champions in my opinion...nuff said !

Answer 6

Just the first paragraph alone of galactus177's comments sums up my definition for "pound-for-pound".

Answer 7

perhaps your thinking of fighters who were able to jump weightclasses and still be very effective,i think fighters like these are difinetly in a league of their own, the durans,robinsons and toneys.they were all masterful boxers who knew all the little tricks who could take a big punch and carried a decent punch up in weight with them. though these are amoung the best pound for pound ever, it doesnt mean that fighters that stayed in the same weightclass their whole carreers werent also amoung the best pound for pound ,marvin hagler for instance.