What's Wrong with Windmills Generators?

Question

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/17/bitter.wind.ap/index.html

The only issue I see with windmills are safety of birds.

Otherwise, I think they are beautiful.

Are people who hate wills prejudiced and being superfluous because:

1. Would they hate to visit the Netherlands in the earlier century?

2. Would they like the modern windmills to have an old windmill facade?

3. Would they like the modern windmill to play creaking sloshing sound recordings so they sound like old windmills?

4. Are they too gigantic to be pleasing to the eye?

I remember the old days when compact disk digital music first came out and there was similar superfluous critism from old vinyl lovers about the sound quality. So, we embedded circuitry into the players to reproduce the imperfections and defects of vinyl recording. I read about a study in which a group of vinyl lovers chose their beloved vinyl recording behind a wall which turned out to be a digital player. Today we also read of electric car makers having to put in a hi-fi system so that the car could reproduce a superfluous combustion engine revving sound.

Are windmill haters being superfluous?

I bet you that in coming generations, their children would be writing stories about childhood memories like "the reassuring sounds of the blades swishing as my childhood sweetheart and I sat and dipped our toes in the gentle flow of the gleaming stream and the trouts ..."

Aren't you people being plain superfluous?

Answer 1

A European friend tells me that there is a significant loss of birds where wind turbines are used, as in Germany. If we could solve this problem we could have clean, safe energy to store for when the wind dies down, at least in areas with reliable winds. It could make a significant contribution along with other forms of energy.

Answer 2

There's nothing wrong with them as long as there's another power source available for times when the wind isn't blowing.  The hatred comes from the oil and coal people who are determined to fight anything that might not put millions in their pockets.

Answer 3

I see nothing 'wrong' with them, though there are much more reliable energy sources.  Windmills only produce electricity while the wind is blowing.  For reliability, I am a big fan of geothermal energy and I strongly support GW Bush's push on geothermal/hydrogen for our energy future.

Geothermal is constant, won't run out for millions of years, carbon-free, abundant...

I don't know why that 'environmentalist' Ted Kennedy won't allow windmills to be constructed where they will be in his Martha's Vineyard mansion view.  He should love the sight of them and what they represent, don't you think?

Answer 4

I agree, i have always enjoyed the vision that windmill gave, while driving through the California Desert.

I believe that the ones that don't want some windmill spoiling their view, are the same ones that cut down trees for the same reason.

The biggest problem with our current windmills is not the view, or even that birds fly into their blades.

The biggest problem is their low window of operation, they need enough wind to make them word, and yet have to shut down if the wind is too strong.

The new vertical windmills have solved both of these problems, and at the same time do not need the hight that the horizonal ones do.

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Answer 5

Actually the biggest problem with wind turbines (not wind mills which are used for grinding, not making electricity) is that they are pretty much useless.

To be able to replace fossil fuels for electricity production (which is what we need to do if we want to have a hope at stopping global warming) you need a power source that doesn't emit CO2 (which wind is, it does have life cycle emissions comparable to nuclear when you ignore backup power) but because people demand that their electricity work most of the time (and they aren't going to buy "the wind isn't blowing" more than a few times) and wind power isn't reliable you need to provide some kind of backup power for when the wind is still.

This backup power is usually fossil fuelled which means that the wind turbine has not actually replace fossil fuels (but merely reduces our usage a little bit).  You also need to keep those fossil fuel power plants ready to start very quickly since the wind could die down at any moment so that means they have to be running at a low level constantly.

The 'solution' of rolling blackouts isn't very popular with the voters so it won't last, to make people think of wind as viable you have to use the spinning reserve method.

Wind power may be able to solve our problems should we develop better utility scale energy storage technologies but that is not in any way guaranteed and the cost of the storage technologies and the overcapacity needed to charge them will probably make those who have to pay the electricity bills demand coal (and not this clean coal PR bulls*** you've probably been hearing a lot about but old fashioned dirty coal).

The fact that we don't have those energy storage technologies does justify a moratorium on the construction of new wind turbines and redirection of the money going to new wind capacity towards a technology that can do what we need and is available today at least until such time as those energy storage technologies appear.  Right now wind is just a distraction from nuclear power (but building lots of useless wind turbines doesn't have much effect on the profits of coal and natural gas companies which is the whole point of wind power).

The noise from wind turbines is louder than wind power proponents claim and the blades can create a strobe light effect at dawn and dusk for those in certain locations, there is also the bird killing issue and human killing issue (quite a few people have died working on the things) but those are minor in comparison to the utter uselessness of the things (if it were useful they'd be quite tolerable, wind does seem to be at least a bit safer than coal (although pretty much everything is)).

As for prejudiced, it seems that it is those who like wind turbines that are prejudiced, having decided that they are good without learning about their downsides.

Answer 6

Windmills are a great source of renewable energy, but they do pose a problem by killing birds and bats.  I don't think the problem with birds and bats has been properly studied yet, and the AGW crowd will embrace any form of energy that is not hydro-carbon based.  Killing birds and bats may be worse for the environment that burning fossil fuels by upsetting the ecosystem near wind farms (or farther away in the case of migratory birds).  

Answer 7

Wind turbines and solar power are the wave of the future, there will be those who claim how bad it is for whatever reason.  The coal fired generators have killed off a lot in the Northeastern U. S. with the pollution and acid rain.  The nuclear plants could be safe to an extent, except where to store the "spent" fuel.  The tidal and wave generation may have a future, but it is not here yet.

One item that has not been fully addressed is the transmission of generated power.  You can't generate all of your power and not have enough transmission capacity to move it.  This has to be dealt with.

Those who oppose the new generating sources, are stuck in the past.  Listen when it is said that we can sever our energy dependence on foreign oil in 10 years time.  This is possible.

Answer 8

there is a Small portion of people that just hate it when people get ahead, so they protest because we advance.  wind farms are nice if they are not subsidized to heavily.

For the comment on geothermal, there are two definitions.  The first is using the magma or thermal gradient that starts at 8,000 feet deep.  this is not abundant nor easy to do.  The other is the use of a heat pump system that is readily available and easy to use.  But instead of a air cooled condenser/evaporator, you use the heat of the earth only 5 to 30 feet below grade.

Answer 9

They aren't in wide enough use in this country for people to know about them much.    They repeat the mantra that they are noisy and inefficient.   Anything that isn't working correctly is noisy and inefficient compared to what?    They are as efficient as the internal combustion engine.

Answer 10

The most common complaint is the ultrasonic and harmonic noise (buzzing and or humming sounds) given off by several running within a mile or more from human residences.

There have also been frequent bird kills but the birds do seem to be adjusting their routes and over time fewer bird collisions occur.

In reality, vertical wind towers are much better all around but are more expensive.

Answer 11

Its the future.  The rate were going on this earth. It'll be the most resourceful way of generating  the power we need to sustain the future.

Answer 12

They are fairly expensive to install and maintain.  Energy output per land usage is low.  Large wind farms may have a direct effect on the weather, studies are still in progress, as they change water vapor levels of the air that passes through.  Birds apparently? I don't understand how birds are killed.  It's not as though they are airplane propellers...  

Wind turbines used to be rather noisy, but the newer (and more expensive) models are pretty quiet.  Asthetics are all opinion.  I'd rather see a wind turbine or ten than a plume of coal fired smoke.

All that being said, there's a place for wind power in the future of energy production.  There are negatives to every form of energy production.  A viable form of production will have advantages that outweigh any negative aspects.  Wind is not the solution, just part of it.  Just remember, there's no such thing as free energy.  A wind turbine uses the wind's energy.  That wind may have served a purpose further "downwind" had it been unimpeded (pollenation perhaps).  

As with anything, proper planning and care should be used.  Wind power is in its infancy, very large scale windfarms' effects have yet to be fully studied.  There's a significant difference in a few thousand turbines and hudreds of thousands of turbines.