What is a kicker?

Question

I was out scouting for a location to photo trains. I had my scanner radio with me, and a call came in saying that train No# @%*# had gone into emergency. The dispatcher came back a few moments later, and ask what was wrong? The train crew replyed saying they had a kicker. About 10 minutes later they reported that it was fixed. That there on the move again. My question is : what is a kicker? Was it something in the air line braking system?

Answer 1

I got a train in Pecos Texas once and the engineer (a Sweetwater Tx good ole boy)climbed down and told me y'all got a popper.I said a what? He said y'all know... a kicker.I said you mean a dynamiter? He says oh yeah i fergit y'all talk funny west of here.All this was said in an East Texas drawl at about 4 words a minute on his part.

I just noticed the post about feed valve braking.They'll rake us over the coals if they catch you doing that where i work! And no offense but you have it backwards, you use the feed valve to raise the brake pipe pressure not lower it to create a soft trainline.They are so download happy that i handle dynamiters one of two ways now.I either stop and bighole the train then release and head down the hill and set the air before the trainline recharges all the way.Or i crest the grade and whatever speed i think i need to allow the dynamic to hold the train long enough to get to the bottom.

Answer 2

Kicker

A common expression for an emergency brake application which occurs when a service brake application is intended or when no application is intended.

from    --   San Diego Railroad Museum Railroad Defintions

Answer 3

A kicker is a car that when the air is set doesn't blow off right and dumps the train putting it into emergency.  This is usually caused by a bad vent valve and or dirt in the brake equipment mounted on the car.  You can usually get around this by using the feed valve to set air very slowly.

Answer 4

Must be a regional term.  I have never heard it before.

There is a term called a "kick," where an engine will get one or more cars rolling then uncouple from them and allow them to roll freely on their own.  This is usually done in switching operations.

It is possible he may have been referring to what most of us call a "dynamiter."  A dynamiter is a car with a faulty air brake control valve.  When the engineer tries to make a service application of the brakes, the valve on the car malfunctions and initiates an emergency application of the brakes, commonly called a "UDE" (Undesired Emergency).

Addendum:  Sorry, and no disrespect toward any intended, but since the "feed valve" has been mentioned it needs to be addressed.

FEED VALVE BRAKING IS STRICTLY PROHBITED BY THE RULES.

It is an FRA de-certifiable offense.  But, as long as you have $20,000 in spare change for the fine, no problem...  roll the dice.

It can be and at one time was a useful but illegal method of handling the air brakes, but only if someone knows exactly what is going on and it sould never be attempted unless under the most exigent of circumstances.  Otherwise, "feed valving" is an undesired release of the brakes just waiting to happen.  

Its use does NOT cause the brakes to apply at a slower rate.  Once the 2psi differential in the brake pipe and the auxilliary reservoir is sensed by the control valve it triggers "preliminary quick service."  This is going to put 10 psi of air into the brake cylinder, and propagate through the train at a service rate (500 feet per second), period.

In the old days engineers used feed valve braking on long, empty trains in grade territory.  It was used to make LESS THAN a 5 to 7 psi reduction in equalizing reservoir (minimum reduction, used to be called "first service" for those acquainted with the 24RL brake schedule) pressure that is AUTOMATIC on 26L and later brake schedules.

It was thought, incorrectly, that a lesser application of the brakes was the result.  What acutally happened was owing to the way the maintaining feature operates, some of the brakes further back in the train applied and released, with the majority of the retarding effort on the head end.  It was a trick the steam guys used after transition to diesels and the incorporation of the 26L brake schedule.  It kept cycle braking to  minimum.

They way the feed valve is used relative to a dynamiter is it is used to INCREASE brake pipe pressure for only a few seconds, then make the minimum reduction and return the feed valve to where you started from, minus 6 psi.  As a result, the "soft" brake pipe allows the offending valve to not move so violently, too quickly to the application position.

Every engineer who visits this forum knows that dynamiters almost NEVER show up in an intial terminal, road-train air brake test.  The pressures that are necessary to achieve to legally perform the air test are well BELOW the pressure of a fully charged brake pipe.

You're not going to get away with it if your consist has an event recorder on ANY locomotive in the consist.

It is tricky and dangerous and no longer necessary.  The same desired results can be obtained LEGALLY through short cycling, or "ping-ponging."  Legal, but an undesired release of the brakes can still happen.  My advice is, if anyone doesn't understand or didn't already know what I just wrote, ya better leave the feed valve (by the way, that is an archaic term, it is properly called the "regulating valve") alone...

Answer 5

It is a dynamiter, I have heard that description before.

I tcauses an untentional emergency brake application when the engineer is trying to make a normal brake appication.

Several years ago we had a reasonably new yard clerk, an inbound crew asked her to tell the outbound they had a dynamiter in their train.

Well, she didnt quite grasp the situation because she called 911 and when the train stopped there was cops and firetrucks everywhere.

Answer 6

It may be a term unique to that railroad or region. Skidderback is right. Ordinarily, a kick is a move done in a switching yard that requires the involvement of the crew.

I too suspect it was a "dynamiter". This is more of a universal term in the U.S. at least. If the air valve malfunction on that, or any car, continue to cause a UDE, it can be "cut out" or bypassed until the car reaches an accessible location to be worked on. This allows the train to function and continue as normal, although that particular car that caused the trouble will not have operating brakes. Once the car is "set out" from the rest of the train, the crew will "red tag" it with a description of the problem.